So here is a question. Why does anyone care about US laws and going ons if you do not live there?
How does it affect your day to day living?
Why is it an issue for you personally?
I am straight up just plain curious why this is even a topic? Is that why, curiosity?
How many people have they killed, injured, or nearly killed? Iām betting zero, because otherwise they would have been arrested by now. Which leads me to believe they arenāt nearly as reckless as you say. But even beyond that, the kind of argument youāre making is countered by @mkshandley. Youāre always going to have idiots, and those goes for all kinds of activities, like driving. Drunk drivers kill WAY more people than are killed with guns, yet I donāt hear anyone saying we need to highly regulate vehicles and alcohol like people want to regulate guns.
I have a mixed view on gunsā¦ on one hand, we should be regulating them more EFFICIENTLY. We should be stricter on who can get a gun. We should make sure people with a history of violence, crime, or mental instability cannot get a gun. We need to make sure we are going detailed background checksā¦BUT, and this a big butā¦
We will never be able to stop people from getting things they shouldnāt.
The people that do bad things will find what they are looking for some way, some how.
Have you ever heard the expression āif thereās a will thereās a wayā? That applies here.
We can do anything short of banning guns altogether and we still wonāt be able to stop those crazies from doing what theyāre doing. They will find a way to get it. We canāt stop them. The only thing regulations do is restrict the LEGAL access to guns. I can almost guarantee that the majority of people that do those crimes do not get their guns legallyā¦and if they did? Well, with more efficient gun policies they wouldnāt be able to get it (although, thatās not even that true, because someone could seem perfectly fine on paper but snap and doing something horrible) will now just get it off the black market or from a friend or family member. We cannot and will not ever be able to keep the weapons from these people because they will find a way to get them anyway.
Itās very easy to say āoh, lets just take away the right to a weapon for unstable peopleā¦problem solvedāā¦ yeah, nice idealā¦but there will ALWAYS be those people who seemed perfectly normal to everyone else, got a legal weapon, and then shot everyone. There will ALWAYS be those cases. We cannot prevent that from happening. We can tryā¦we can maybe deter a few peopleā¦but if someone is bound and determined to do it, they are going to do it no matter what it takes.
An example of that are those crazy ISIS supporters who build bombs out of everyday itemsā¦ How could we prevent that? Make people have a permit to buy everyday cleaners?
We cannot blame guns. We need to instead blame the people. The PEOPLE carrying the weapon are what makes guns as dangerous as they are. If there was no intention to fire the bullet, there wouldnāt be a dead person. The gun itself is harmless until you pull the trigger.
Plusā¦It is part of our Second Amendmentā¦we have a right to carry a weapon. The government cannot take those rights away from Americans. Itās those guns we blame today for all our problems formed America and protect our freedom. We need to have a way to protect ourselves from a corrupt government
And Iāll leave you with thisā¦
Telling someone they canāt have a gun in a gun free zone will not prevent an unstable person from being in a gun free zone.
And, did you ever wonder if a person had a gun to defend themselves (in, say, a school shooting situation), that the casualties could have been slim to none? Or, in a more relevant example, if even just one person was carrying a weapon in that night club in Floridaā¦all those lives could have been saved.
In reality, we are only harming ourselves with gun control. Gun control doesnāt take away the amount of crazy, it decreases the amount of people that can defend AGAINST the crazies.
Where do you get this from, really that is the third time i see you post some sketchy statistic? Any statistic i look up has motor vehicle caused deaths and firearms caused deaths at about equal. And that is with an infinitely greater amount of motor vehicles actually being used hours over hours every day, while guns pass most of their existence lying around somewhere or holstered, until they are not and do all that killing in that short timeframe they are actually wieldedā¦
And how are vehicles not highly regulated? You not only need to have your vehicle registered at all times you also have to go through a regulated learning program and pass several tests to officially be allowed to drive a car. All measures gun nuts go apeshit over when proposed to also be applied to guns.
Also vehicles serve an actual purpose for private owners whereas a guns purpose is solely to kill.
Here is something interesting. Almost all of the shooters in the last 10 years were taking pharmaceutical drugs. Wonder why no one blames the pharmaceutical companies for the shootings?
To be fair, in my state you drive, make four right or lefts turns and they give you a license. I fear for my life more when driving then any other timeā¦
Lol. It is scary sad and I laugh just so I do not cry.
Prove a causal connection between the pharmaceuticals these people took and them going out and killing someone, and you can bet your ass on them getting sued over it.
But that is like asking why Coke isnāt held responsible when someone goes on a killing spree on a day he also drank one of their products. It is also not about blaming anyone, although you might want to ask yourself, why the same lobby that fights so hard for your right to be able to freely own guns(and also sells them to you) is also producing and highly profiting from all the guns that supposed criminals use in the crime statistics they feed your fears with and make you go buy a gun in the first place.
All about the money. Crime will never end because money money MONNNEY!
Most of the prisons in the US are privately owned, big money in that.
Crime keeps all the Lawyers, Judges, Police and various other related organizations running.
The government just wants money, you can see it when a person gets arrested for their sixth DUIā¦
(Edit) The government will never take the guns in a large move. They make way to much money from the lobbyists. The talk is a great way to boost sales and revenue!
This has been anā¦ Interesting thread to say the least. Though I could soapboxā¦ I will try and keep it brief.
First and foremost, the absolute most important thing to remember is that 50 innocent people lost their lives today. Please keep them and their families in your thoughts and prayers.
Secondly, regarding the OP, it IS true that gun control prevents dangerous people from getting weapons. It Is ALSO true that states that allow open carry have less gun violence. I for one believe in the right to carry though I have no desire to do so. Knowing that somebody can draw a weapon to defend me is a comfort. And somebody with malicious intent WILL find a means to get a gun if they so desire. Tighter gun control will not stop criminals from getting guns. And in this specific instance the person bought both guns used in the shooting legally, following all the regulations required by law. It clearly didnāt help.
Finally what I would like to see is a ban on fully automatic military grade assault weapons. There is absolutely no reason a civilian needs a weapon of that caliber. It is not for self defense and it is not for hunting. So why are they being sold legally to civilians? Letās get rid of assault weapons for civilians.
Thatās my two centsā¦
Prayers for the families of the victims.
May God be with you in this dark time.
Amen.
Full auto weapons arenāt just sold to anyone. Unless you are a very specific type of dealer or are willing to spend a ton of money on a pre-ban machine gun and live in a state where you can own it, itās not going to happen.
This may be true. As I said I myself am not a gun owner, however I live in Texas and I know they can be purchased here and in the case of todayās shooting, the gunman legally purchased an AK-??. Why?
Those arenāt fully auto. They look and feel like their fully automatic cousins, but only fire a single round per trigger pull.
Iām typing on my phone so Iām going to keep it short, but a semi-auto AK will sell for $400, where legal machine guns start around $50000. Check out gunbroker.com, I think they have a search where you can look up full auto stuff.
20 years ago, a not-to-be-named (Caucasian Christian mind you) moron went on a killing spree in Port Arthur, Tasmania (Aust.), killing 35 people and wounding almost the same number.
After this incident, Australia introduced a firearm buy-back scheme for semi and automatic weapons (destroying about a million firearms), and restricting the ownership of high capacity semi-automatic rifles and semi-automatic/pump-action shotguns.
Now, do a search for āmass shootingā in Australia from 1997 til the presentā¦
The issue is that itās easy to kill 20 people with a gun. Try to do it with a knife: people can defend themself or few people can stop the killer. And no, I donāt think Jack the Ripper is a relevant exampleā¦
But with guns, you just have to go in the shopping mall and fire: you donāt need to know how to aim, there are enough people to be sure that your bullets will hit someone.
So the current solution is to say: we are going to give a weapon to every americans thus one of them can shoot the shooter? So someone that didnāt forget his gun on him. Someone that know how to aim. What the probability that this kind of guy is just at the same place of this killer? Did it really happen that a civilian used his gun to shoot a killer in the past?
Another issue is the accidental shootings like this one:
24 children below 4 years-old in 2014ā¦
So yes, you can argue that these weapons werenāt secured, but if this civilian didnāt buy this weapon, her child will be aliveā¦
What are you thinking about the movie āBowling for Columbineā?
Maybe itās a bit old but it can give a nice overview.
One part (the animation) is similar to what @TaliaParks said about the american culture of violence.
Do gunowners feel more confident with a gun on them? Are they really ready to kill someone and to live with that?
Owning a gun has nothing to do with confidence. It is a tool that is nice to have if you need. Most gun owners I know hope they never have to use it, but at least have the option if they need it.
The shooting in Orlando was horrible but the real horror is people pushing their agenda instead of addressing the real issue.
An inanimate object did not kill and wound all those people, a human following a twisted ideology that has declared war on all non believers did.
But not really surprising, no one addresses the real issues. Nowadays people are more concerned about being right and less concerned with what is right.
my understanding is this wep can be made to fully auto anyhow with minor adjustments. I never done it and donāt know how but apparently some do
usless info but really matters not if fully auto or semi. person can pull a trigger on a semi auto fast enough
I would be very scared if I have to keep a gun with meā¦ And I just donāt imagine to have to to use itā¦
Of course, the first issue is human. But what do you want to do about that? There is no miracle check-up to know if one guy will one day take a gun and kills peopleā¦
What you can do it is to remove the avaibility of weapons to avoid this kind of shootingā¦
This topic is misleading: what happens is apparently a terorist act and donāt have so much to do with gun laws in USA (America is not USA onlyā¦).
The worst gun law on the books IMO is gun free zones. Practically every major target for terrorist attack is a gun free zone; every mass shooting that has occurred recently have been in gun free zones. The number of conceal carry permit holders in the US is skyrocketing, yet none of them can do anything to help. They are forced to leave their weapon in the car, or at home, leaving them defenseless. Fish in a barrel.
The Aurora theater shooting happened two blocks from my house. Columbine happened just across town. The neighbor who lived behind us was killed in the theater shooting. Anybody else got any actual personal experience with these things you want to share, or do you just want to debate from your mountaintop viewpoint?
There is no way the theater shooting could have been prevented, even if another patron had been carrying. The shooter was wearing full body armor and was armed with tear gas, smoke bombs, multiple weapons and a sh*tload of ammunition. I donāt know of a single one of these tragedies that would have been prevented by stricter gun laws.
Guns will never be outlawed in the USA. There is too much of our heritage and national identity tied up with guns.
