In light of the events in Las Vegas a discussion is starting in the memorial thread so i thought it would be better to have that conversation here instead so the other thread can stay dedicated to the victims.
Please feel free to discuss but this can be a very heated topic so lets all remember to be civil
There is ZERO reason for civilians to have access to Automatic Weapons…
I am generally very willing to see other sides, but an AR is meant for military action, PERIOD.
Whether these weapons are available or not would not stop something like this from happening. If someone wants to do something like this they will find another way of carrying it out weather it be creating a bomb getting an automatic gun from the black market or lots of other nasty ideas that go through their head. What happened was a terrible terrible tragedy that I wish never happened. I feel for the families and have them in my prayers.
This really I believe is a subject that shouldn’t be on these forums.
I agree @Taliesin, those that wish to do evil will find the means, but just in general, there is no reason for a civilian to have an AR.
I am pro-guns, I believe that if more people carried with intelligence there would be less random crime, but I am anti-AR. No amount of restriction and background check justifies the means… because there is no means! Why would a civilian need an AR? No reason.
I actually have a different stance on this.
First of all this (as i see it) is not a guns or no guns issue. It is a deficiency in mental healthcare issue.
For far too long has there been a stigma associated with having mental health issues. This is ridiculous imo…
There is no stigma associated with cancer, auto immune disorders, or things like dyslexia. Why should there be shame involved with bipolar, depression, or schizophrenia?
If properly treated these problems can be managed and the person can live some semblance of a normal life.
The second part is the accessibility of quality mental Healthcare in the US. There are many obstacles for people to get the care they need. Some of them are financial or availability in a persons area. The quality of the “low-cost” mental healthcare can be abysmal and in many cases will do more harm than good.
Now… As for guns.
I personally know at least a dozen people irl who have high powered military grade weapons. I cant stress this enough but i would trust every one of them with my life these people would never do something like what happened in Nevada.
Yes they are a small sample size but i dont know a single person who has committed a mass shooting.
The question for me is that of liberty. This country likes to throw that word around at every opportunity to the point that it has lost its meaning.
Ask a random person to define “Liberty” and most will tell you freedom. This is an incomplete answer at best.
the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one’s way of life, behavior, or political views.
Ok so lets unpack this a bit.
Do we, as Americans, have liberty?
Its kinda yes and no.
We have many liberties that many dont have (at least thats what they tell us) but to say we have true liberty is false.
If i wanted to buy a car for example i am free to do so if i have the agreed upon exchange medium however do i have the right to drive said car? The answer is no.
First i must have a valid drivers license. Second i must have automotive insurance. Then the car must be registered in the state i live in and a license plate must be displayed at all times.
Then and only then may i drive my car. And then there are all sorts of rules and restrictions i must follow while i do.
Now i am not advocating for anarchy because that just wont work. But as i see it for every right we surrender it makes it that much easier for the next one to be taken. This will eventually lead to an Orwellian dystopia that i will never surrender to.
So to close this novel of a post let me say this as kind of a tl;dr rather than focusing on gun control we should focus on the availability and quality of mental healthcare in America and preserve what liberties we still have.
Legit question here:
For what purpose do they use them?
I ask because I know nobody with these weapons, but several people with gun licenses and permits to carry concealed and all share my view of ARs.
Mostly for home defense. If you think about it if someone has broken into your home with a gun to rob you or worse you would want the best and most effective way to preserve the life and well-being of yourself and your family.
Coming face to face with the business end of an AR-15 for example will quickly make someone re-evaluate their choices and flee.
Anyone who says they use an AR for hunting is full of crap. So that is a perfect example of someone who shouldnt have one.
I am not saying nor will i ever say that everyone should be allowed to have them but neither do i think that no-one should.
I suppose that makes sense. If I am being honest with myself, I am NOT a gun carrier FYI, so perhaps my best shot, pardon the pun, at defending my family is slinging as many bullets as quickly as possible…
There are pros and cons to every argument, I guess for me the few bad eggs can do SO much damage with these that I feel its worth taking that away from the good ones too.
Yeah… that’s really what it boils down to for me.
Thats a completely understandable position brudda and i am not gonna say you are wrong but i personally cant take the chance that someone could hurt my family in any way. Locks are only there to keep honest people honest if you catch my meaning and i would prefer to be able to protect my family best i can or defend my country in the very highly unlikely “red dawn” situation
What I dont understand is how ppl can buy weapon that literary can deal massive damage, like extreme machine guns and rifles. Normal pistols and such I am fine with, so people can defend themselves with. But these top top military rifles and machine guns should not be available for anyone else than police and the army. On the other side, after several terrorists have used trucks as terror tool, instead of pro rifles/machine guns, its really not much one can do to hinder it, if gun laws get changed, there will always be other tools for them, truck is one of the options. Sadly. However this thread is about Gun control across the states/continents, so yeah I know I talk about something else.
That is an excellent point as we have seen recently in the news and speaks to my point about mental Healthcare. If someone is intent on carrying out this kind of atrocity, lack of access to guns will not stop them.
The best way to do that is to focus on identifying people with the potential to do this and get them the treatment they need.
You will never be able to stop it completely, there are just too many people in the world to see them all beforehand but as i said quality mental healthcare can go a long way to eradicating the problem.
The ARs that the guy used was already illegal to own. So the only change that would have any meaning would to figure out how he got these illegal weapons and prevent people from getting them in the same way.
First, cause its going to drive me crazy:
AR stands for Armalite Rifle not Assault Rifle. Popular misconception. This would bug me like your use of “who | whom” in the other thread…
I own guns, lots of them, I have a concealed carry permit and have a handgun with me almost everywhere I go.
I own long rifles (308, 223/556, 22LR x 3?, Mosin Nagant), shotguns (2, both 12 gauge), and 4 hand guns (357 revolver x2, 40 cal x2).
I think that fully automatic assault weapons should be outlawed from both civilian and police use no matter what the certification. I do not like the way police forces are going toward full military style equipping themselves, I think that this will lead to more citizen death and not less.
I am watching the news for the reason behind this guys attack and hope that its not religious based as that would fuel the moron’s agenda who currently occupies The White House and I do not want that.
There is certainly a mental health issue in this country as most of the mass shootings that have not been religious based have had their roots in reduced mental health capability.
From the vid this guy certainly had fully automatic weapons which are not easily available to the normal civilian, but you can get them if you are willing to jump through all the hoops required by the federal government.
I just watched an interview with his brother, he also are speechless when it comes to what the motives could be.
I stand corrected AND enlightened!
When civil war 2 starts ima need all my weapons.
I’ll allow this topic as long as we stay civil.