Coronavirus Generosity

[UKresistance]

@igniteice

Do you realize how much the game begs me for money? Every time I get a new legendary or mythic troop, I get a flash “offer” asking me for $30 to upgrade it, even though I have thousands of traitstones and millions of souls.

Yes, I realize the game begs for cash to buy stupid shit no one ever should. It was like that years before you started playing and we had the same topics about it. Flash sales are ‘new’ and almost always a good deal.

But it is a 2020 priority to redo the shop and valuation and such, did you miss that official mention? Lawyers, publishers, and none of Sirrian’s favorite things.

So, on to wealth. While VIP 10, almost all my cash spent was towards stupid weapons and ‘guild elite’ back when it gave every guild member guild keys. Yet here I am with about 60K gems, and I do spend gems. But I do not buy gems.

[Denthegod]

I personally just ignore the pop ups. And it’s not like you just gave them money and got nothing…

[Fleg]

I understand the need for popups, but I hate that I have to deny the offer THREE TIMES!

[Hoop]

i dont really want or expect anything extra free during this time. Just keep the servers running at top performance. I guess the only thing id want extra is for you guys to spend time working on a way to not do another world event unless things are fixed with that boring mess.

[vanyel]

@Tabu

Remember this, you are unemployed without players like me and others who have spent stupid amounts of money for your mediocre game. Your studio needs to start understanding that and treating us as though our input, criticism, and wants matter.

What you need to stop doing is thinking the 10 people who liked your post are what the majority of players think or want.

Wow - why on earth would you spend “stupid amounts of money” on a simply “mediocre game”?? One would think if the amount of money you spend is disproportionate to the amount of fun you get in return you’d have stopped spending money and/or moved on to a better game well before you spent so much.

Also, while its true the devs need to pay attention to players input, criticism & wants, it’s so common for people to get bent out of shape when they think they aren’t being listened to when in actuality there are thousands of players each with polar opposite opinions, wants & criticisms. It sucks to be in the group that doesn’t get what they want but there is no way they can give everyone what they want.

[AMT]

@KYLENATOR001

the devs gotta eat

They could achieve this through players wanting to buy stuff because it’s fun.
They could achieve this through players having to buy stuff because it keeps getting harder to keep up, and many are too addicted to the game to quit or fall behind.

Observe the last 2 years of GoW, and decide which one applies more.

[anon43026234]

@vanyel

Wow - why on earth would you spend “stupid amounts of money” on a simply “mediocre game”?? One would think if the amount of money you spend is disproportionate to the amount of fun you get in return you’d have stopped spending money and/or moved on to a better game well before you spent so much.

Because of shameful and unethical addictive mechanics implemented in “casino like” methods in this kind of “free to play” games, maybe?

Lets be clear: “free to play” games and micro transactions are the cancer of the video gaming industry. It will eventually cause its doom in the long term. By that I mean the disappearing of quality video games without any micro transactions. When I see the evolution of this industry these last 40 years, well, mainly the last 10-15 years, its hard to not be sad and worried.

Personnaly, despite playing video games since the end of the 70s, Gems of war was my first “Free to play” game I ever played, it will also be the last one.

PS: about the like from a dev on your post, while perfectly knowing what I just described on my 1st paragraph…well… no comment.

[Fleg]

Back in the day game companies were extremely happy to make back double their cost of development and call it successful no dlc and no microtransactions. That’s all unthinkable now. That’s not enough.

What worries me is that companies not only need to make good profit every year, they need to make MORE profit than the year before. I shudder to think what changes are waiting for us in the future in GoW to keep this profit increasing year after year.

[Tabu]

It was once a good game. Then 4.7 on. I stopped at that point. Sadly I can’t even play 3-4 battles now before I lose interest.

I voice my opinion on here because I want things to change. I didn’t invest money just to walk away.

I’m an alpha, I don’t walk away or sit back and watch. That is what betas do.

One last thing if you are a paying customer you should be listened to. You shouldn’t be treated as just another f2p player. Paying customers keep them in business f2p players are along for the ride. By default that should mean something. You pay for the right to get bent out of shape if desired. Correct?

[EraserParticles]

Not at all, this sounds like toxic consumer mentality mixed with sunk cost fallacy. The devs aren’t beholden to you because you purchased something, used it, and then decided you didn’t want it. You made your own bed and your refusal to lie in it because you perceive yourself as a certain kind of toxic is nobody’s fault but your own.

Your $20 was an agreement between you and the developers for them to provide you a service and for you to receive it. You received it and nobody owes you anything beyond that and it comes off as extremely entitled and delusional to say you have some kind of personal stock in the company. They gave you what you paid for regardless of whether or not you want the original product. At this point, the transaction is complete. No amount of “dominating” them with your “alphaness” will give you any more stake than somebody else who hasn’t paid money into the game.

Also, coming on the forums and acting like a Karen over a free mobile app is the most “beta” thing I’ve ever seen. If you don’t like it, stop letting it “alpha” you and go find something else to do. Don’t let sunk cost fallacy stop you from finding something that makes you happy.

[vanyel]

@Tabu

One last thing if you are a paying customer you should be listened to. You shouldn’t be treated as just another f2p player. Paying customers keep them in business f2p players are along for the ride. By default that should mean something. You pay for the right to get bent out of shape if desired. Correct?

And there we have it, the “entitlement” argument. No, buying something in the game doesn’t give you any rights or entitlements above & beyond someone who hasn’t paid for anything. Whatever you bought - gems, orbs, keys, or some special little thing no one else got - is your reward. Your daily loot from being a VIP is your reward. Getting to speed up your progression past f2p players is your reward. You got what you paid for and you wouldn’t have bought it unless 1) you thought the benefit was worth it At the time and/or 2) you got enough enjoyment out of the game to want to give back.

As for f2p players just being along for the ride, guess what? They have just as much power to write a good/bad review, refer (or not) people to start playing, and most of all have the potential to BECOME a paying player. And there are likely more of them than paying players. So listening to paying players more f2p players is a really bad business model. Without the f2p population, there wouldn’t be a game either, or the prospect of future income.

It’s much easier to pry a couple bucks from a couple of the thousands of f2p than it is to get more money from those who have already paid hundreds of dollars.

[Denthegod]

@Tabu

I’m an alpha, I don’t walk away or sit back and watch. That is what betas do.

Thank you for that one. I laughed my face off. The ego behind that was mind numbingly hilarious and ironic

[Arelana]

@vanyel

As for f2p players just being along for the ride, guess what? They have just as much power to write a good/bad review, refer (or not) people to start playing, and most of all have the potential to BECOME a paying player.

I saw a video a while back that actually placed huge importance on free players, because they are literally content for paying players. A typical paying player is going to want to spend more time in their game of choice, and if the population of free players dries up, the player pool evaporates and there’s no one to play with except other paying players. This is more of a big deal in games that sell power (because it’s no fun to only play vs other overpowered people, it’s more fun to stomp free players) but it’s still a point worth acknowledging.

@EraserParticles

Also, coming on the forums and acting like a Karen over a free mobile app is the most “beta” thing I’ve ever seen.

Going full Karen is going too far, but I think everyone, whether free player or paying player, should be able to provide feedback. Being angry is fine, too, as long as folks stay rational and express themselves respectfully.

The reason most people get angry is because something they love spending time doing has changed in a way that makes it less fun. They think about how fun it used to be “in the good old days” and on a psychological level, losing that hurts. It’s like being in a relationship and realizing the other person has changed and you’re just not sure you’re compatible anymore. Sure, some people find it very easy to just shut the door and walk away, but others can’t. It doesn’t make them “beta” or “stupid” or “weak” or anything else. It makes them human.

The devs have never (to my knowledge) squashed respectful feedback, even when that feedback is overwhelmingly negative.

If enough paying players walk away, the game dies. The people who go out of their way to provide detailed, rational, respectful feedback about “why X thing feels bad” are people who don’t want to see the game die. (I suspect a lot of the folks who make more emotional statements also want to see the game thrive. I haven’t seen many posts I’d qualify as “true haters” on this forum.)

[xolid99]

I really disagree with asking the devs for generosity. It’s something they either do or they don’t. It’s not something we should be asking for imo.

I will make one point however about the ‘entitlement’ argument and how it can potentially be misconceived. I’m not looking for a debate on it though

No-one has any entitlement from buying things and saying the Devs owe them some sort of loyalty, imho.

That whole argument is completely wrong, imho.

However, I can make a valid argument that some of the changes in the game have impacted upon my past purchases, without it being an entitlement argument or sunken cost fallacy.

What I could make a reasonable argument for is that some of the decisions made after some of the transactions undertaken, have negatively impacted upon my decisions made at the time.

The developers have a complete right to do what they please with the game and if they change things, then its up to you as a player to make informed choices .

Here’s one I feel is something that I can make a logical argument that has detrimentally effected my gameplay and that is the ‘Epic Task’ addition to the game.

This ET addition has caused me to affirm (I wavered not long before) a logical choice and that is not to spend any more money on the game. Moreover, it also empowers me to consider communicating my reasoning to other potential investors in the game, or any constructive criticism on the forums, with thought out reasoning.

I gave (past tense) money to the game for many reasons, one key being supporting it. I would so again IF, the choices made by the developers in some way mirrored my optimistic expectations/goals or were better than the middle ground.

An example for me would be introducing a new game mode (say Council of Chiefs) with fair reward tiers, that was FUN, with no blind methodology to it. I would look at that as the middle ground. If it was a blatant gem grab/sink, (which is currently is) I’ll vote with my feet (or fingers!).

I could add another one, with different reasoning - delves. We were told we were going to get some additional help beyond that which has been introduced, BUT, the devs have up-rated the delves, made them harder. They are a business, they need to make money, but I certainly, and others know that logically, since the advent of potions, making delves harder equates to a direct cash benefit.

Hence, why we are waiting on delve improvements, spin as they may. I’m making a logical argument again as I’ve made a logical choice never to spend enough gems to complete a delve with potions. Others make their own choices, buy gems, complete delve 500 and faction 500
in the events, entirely reasonable, a choice.

Going back to ET. ET addition has caused me as a player to not get the rewards I used to get when donating gold earned from playing to the guild. This in turn would allow me to probably gather more currency, potentially legendary troops and every so often a mythic troop.

The actual value of gold you can therefore argue has diminished, in that pre ET, my xx hours gameplay earned me xxx amount of gold. Now I need an exponentially greater amount of gameplay to achieve the status quo pre ET.

That effects VIP level and my choices. The value of my VIP level has reduced since ET. I’m Vip 8, my 2.5k gold and 3 glory keys are almost completely valueless, in comparison to the hike in gold required to complete ET, which were not there before I invested in the game. Glory keys are of really limited value, it cost me not far short of 175,000 glory to get the last 2 mythics, after my stashes disappeared.

And there’s the misconception, logically I/we are worse off as a result of ET. It just needs to be pointed out in the right way to get that we are disappointed, unhappy, annoyed, whatever, but we have no right to be entitled to the Devs not making the choices they do. Sometimes the devs do listen to feedback, for example Sunspear, but have yet to comment on Council of Chiefs…

It’s all about conveying the message, properly like the below;

@Arelana

The reason most people get angry is because something they love spending time doing has changed in a way that makes it less fun

And then banging on the table the wrong way.

All imho of course

[Tabu]

The devs are beholden to all paying customers. Would they be in business without them?

[EraserParticles]

100%, yes. Banner ads, pop-ups, redirects, “click for free currency” videos, I mean, just look at most mobile games.

[Tabu]

This game does not have any of that, therefore it relies on paying customers.

[UKresistance]

The real problem are the dead beat cheap skate players that play but don’t pay. If we got rid of them after a nice introductory period, we could pay ~$10 a month and the devs would be living high on the hog.

[Arelana]

@Tabu

The devs are beholden to all paying customers.

I disagree. As long as you received the item(s) you paid for, nothing further is owed.

That’s it. Period.

GoW has gone through some massive paradigm shifts over the past couple years and has had some pretty epic fallout on these forums - yet, the game is still here. Obviously, players who chose to stop spending and/or quit entirely did not ruin the game, and the game did not immediately shift course to try getting those players back on board.

I have heard of rare instances of some games giving side perks to “mega-whales”. This is the equivalent to a casino giving a high roller special treatment. I don’t know if GoW does anything like this, but if they do, and it was something you qualified for by dropping a significant amount of money on the game, you’d likely have direct access to the devs/publisher through back channels anyhow.

@Tabu

This game does not have any of that, therefore it relies on paying customers.

Right, and until paying customers quit in sufficient quantity to actually merit a reaction, they have no reason to change. It hasn’t happened yet.

If you get the goods you paid for, the transaction is complete. The game owes you nothing further.

Players are encouraged to post feedback, and on rare occasions it does influence the game (i.e. Sunspear nerf and subsequent un-nerf), but it generally does not, and with good reason. The players who visit this forum are a tiny percentage of the playerbase. A lot of players tend to confuse the idea of the devs reading their feedback with the idea of the devs acting on that feedback. Lack of action doesn’t mean they’re not listening. It simply means the answer, for now at least, is “no”.

If I have severely misread you and you are a GoW influencer with a massive base of followers, by all means, spread the word about whatever you don’t like about the game, convince them to convince all their friends/guildmates/etc. to stop spending. It’s possible that sometime down the road such an action would result in the game direction changing, if the hit to the bottom line is big enough. With all the changes I’ve been unhappy about, I’d actually really enjoy seeing that happen someday.

if you’re just a regular player like the rest of us, though? If you got what you paid for at the time of purchase, you’ve been “paid” in full for your money. Leave feedback all you like, but you’re owed nothing.

[turintuor]

@Arelana

I saw a video a while back that actually placed huge importance on free players, because they are literally content for paying players. A typical paying player is going to want to spend more time in their game of choice, and if the population of free players dries up, the player pool evaporates and there’s no one to play with except other paying players. This is more of a big deal in games that sell power (because it’s no fun to only play vs other overpowered people, it’s more fun to stomp free players) but it’s still a point worth acknowledging.

Not sure if it is true for this game: you can have false accounts created by devs and you will see nothing different. So free players are not that crucial.