Why we need to keep world events during GW week

[Snooj]

Warning: Incoming sarcasm.

I keep seeing on the forum and during streams how some people want to remove world event from GW week. After all, GW weeks are busy right? You need to carefully plan your fights. Let me show you how hectic it is.

First, some background: my guild is 1.5 years old. For the first year we won first place in every GW. Nowadays we usually still do but sometimes do get second.

And, with that, proof of how challenging GW is:

First day we scored four times higher. Second and third day (today) the opponent didn’t do anything. Obviously, GW is a struggle.

Look at how serious our opponent yesterday was! Three people! Oh noooooo!

It’s interesting that guild is only level 70 whereas mine is 488. How did they climb so high in the brackets? I looked into them more. One person last logged in January 2020. …yes, last year. Another was last month. Only one person logged in recently.

My first opponent today was especially difficult. I really needed extra time to figure out a strategy here. Just look at how absurdly high level this troop is. Thankfully the rest were lower level phew.

Now, I hear you guys. We are mid GW week. Let’s see an entire week to prove how competitive all the guilds in our bracket are. So, here is a photo from a recent GW:

We doubled the next guild. Sooooooo difficult.

So yeah, the community is right. We need to remove world events during GW week. GWs are just so challenging! In fact, on average I spend five minutes a day for GW, that’s so time consuming!

…Obviously, this is a joke post. I just want to highlight why I am so against removing any event running at the same time as GW. 1.5 years of winning and we still fight dead guilds. This week isn’t a one off. This is every GW. Fix the brackets, pair guilds with others of equal difficulty, and then it’d be a fun event. Until then, please devs, don’t remove other events during GW week.

I can hear some people now saying bracket one is difficult. Congrats? That’s a minority of players. There are equally good guilds who could make it even more difficult but they’ll take years if ever to reach that bracket.

Obviously my guild is not one to ever compete in bracket 1 even if brackets are fixed. I’m not looking to be in that. I just don’t want dead guilds or guilds so far below us in points.

The concept of guild vs guild and brackets isn’t unique to GoW. Sometimes for new guilds it takes a couple runs before the game settles you into your appropriate bracket. But 1.5 years and still nothing? I do like the concept of GW as much as I complain, but it just doesn’t work except for older guilds.

Fix brackets, then remove other events in the same week. Until brackets are fixed, let the rest of the players have something to do like world events.

[terberos]

Not sure how much time GW takes in the top brackets, but it can’t be more than 15-30 minutes? These last two days have been boring for me, I even played few treasure hunts and wondered if I should spend more gems to world event with no good reason, so yeah, I can agree with that…

[sls]

I sympathise. To be completely fair though, I think people should stop making new guilds. There’s always room for new(er) players in more established, higher ranked guilds. If you’re stuck in a guild with 3 active players, extend your feelers on discord, WC or the forums and get yourself and your active players into an active guild.

[Snooj]

@sls

To be completely fair though, I think people should stop making new guilds.

I don’t think the solution is that only old guilds should be allowed certain content. I started a guild so obviously I am biased, but I think anyone should be able to start a guild for any reason. If brackets worked, then all the dead 0 or low point guilds would be paired with each other, and this wouldn’t be as much of an issue.

@terberos

Not sure how much time GW takes in the top brackets, but it can’t be more than 15-30 minutes?

Maybe a top bracket person can chime in since I don’t know how long they take. I imagine it could be high if they’re really trying to maximize points per battle. Even at a half hour a day, that’s still 3 hours a week which could be viewed as a bit much.

Even if brackets get fixed, I don’t think I’d ever spend that long on GW personally. Neither I nor my guild is that hardcore. And that’s fine. But if my opponents are challenging because we play on the same level, that’d be fun and I’d be thrilled. But it’s not, so I need something else like a world event to do.

[sls]

Not a solution, no It’s just not very likely they’ll fix the brackets in the foreseeable future, if ever. I used to spend 1h30m - 2h on GW per day, I limit myself to 45m these days (and it still feels like too much).

[Magnusimus]

@Snooj

Maybe a top bracket person can chime in since I don’t know how long they take.

I typically dedicate 15-20 hours a week for Wars. This excludes any time I might be helping others, but includes playing alt accounts across our six guilds if ever we’re short a 30-person roster somewhere.

I agree brackets need fixed. That would mostly solve the issue. I once wrote a lengthy proposal of how to fix them, but it was largely panned, as is to be expected around here

EDIT: for the link — the entire thread is…illuminating. Thread got locked, lip-service got paid, a lot of good (and not so good) feedback given…

There's something needs to be changed in Guild Wars brackets

FOR GUILD WARS PURPOSES ONLY, I would say a dead guild is any that does not score any points or any guild that does not post at least 10% or so of the bracket’s mean score (excluding 0s and any significant outlier [meaning a guild that’s #1 in the bracket by twice or thrice as many points as #2; same if #2 is compared to #3]). If those are two different categories, call them “dead” and “non-competitive,” respectively. Dead guilds drop to the bottom, Non-competitives just drop in the manner @C…

[terberos]

@Magnusimus thanks, that was… interesting to read! I think I learned more about this forum than guild war though…

[Madd_Hurricane]

I’m okay with having a World Event or Tower of Doom run alongside Guild Wars. But I don’t like it when we have WE/ToD and GW, then a weekend Raid Boss or Invasion, all in the same week. There should never be more than 2 Guild Events in one week.

[Kezef]

@Madd_Hurricane

But I don’t like it when we have WE/ToD and GW, then a weekend Raid Boss or Invasion, all in the same week. There should never be more than 2 Guild Events in one week.

Allow me to propose a (relatively) simple solution to this:

Make a small change to campaigns. Instead of a 10-week straight campaign, break it up into two 5-week pieces. Put Tower Of Doom in the mid-campaign interregnum period (between Week 5 and Week 6) and Guild Wars in the other interregnum. Which does mean reducing Guild Wars from once in 4 weeks to once in 12 weeks.

This would leave us two six-week chunks for Monday-Sunday events, which can be made to line up with the current Friday-Sunday rotation (which itself has six events). The developers can decide – or maybe even put to a poll vote – which event slots in with Tower of Doom/Guild Wars. And then things settle down until such time as the weekend rotation of events changes.

And that’s how you create a situation where you don’t have three events running at the same time.

[Snooj]

@Magnusimus

for the link — the entire thread is…illuminating. Thread got locked, lip-service got paid, a lot of good (and not so good) feedback given…

I remember that thread. The takeaway is the devs think that if a guild got to a good bracket in the past, then even if they start scoring zero it would be unfair to drop them too much.

And that’s why we fight dead guild after dead guild after dead guild…

@Kezef

Make a small change to campaigns. Instead of a 10-week straight campaign, break it up into two 5-week pieces. Put Tower Of Doom in the mid-campaign interregnum period (between Week 5 and Week 6) and Guild Wars in the other interregnum. Which does mean reducing Guild Wars from once in 4 weeks to once in 12 weeks.

This means during GW week, there wouldn’t be another event. This is exactly what I said in the OP we shouldn’t do.

[Sytro]

@sls

To be completely fair though, I think people should stop making new guilds. There’s always room for new(er) players in more established, higher ranked guilds.

I disagree. Whatever people do, game should have a mechanism to:

• move inactive/low activity guilds to lower brackets
• move active/strong guilds to higher brackets

I proposed, that probably easiest solution would be to move down every guild that scores 0 (in fact, every guild that scores below 12k, which you get just by setting up 24 unique troops as defenders and losing all battles…) to bracket 2*X, where X is their current bracket…

That would do some serious reshufling and would at least remove dead-guild, almost dead guilds quicker. Ofc, it wouldn’t solve @Snooj problem, as they would start to encounter guilds with few active members… so probably another extra ruls would be required (like pushing all guilds who are #1 in their bracket and gained more points than all oppponents cumulative to bracket X/2, where their current bracket is X)

That would do even more reshufling… but again. Sooner of later strong guilds could find themselves in brackets with 1 opponent of equal strength and all other much weaker ones…
And that could be true for multiple guilds… Guess that would be point where ‘slow climb’ starts…

Now, such ideas as (moving up X/2 brackets or getting demoted X brackets) would require some extra adjusting, as some brackets could end up getting crowded and others empty → so bracketing should be at least 3-step algorithm

• give all guild their ‘temporary new bracket’ based on the rules
• sort all guilds by: their temporary new bracket, their current bracket and create a list
• go top/down on the list assigning teams to brackets based on the position on the list (so first 10 teams go into B1, another 10 goes into B2 etc…)

that way:
*brackets 1-20 wouldn’t be affected much by current change (so slow climb… anyway)
*strong guilds in brackets 100+ would have much easier way to advance (assuming they can gain more score than all other 9 guilds combined)
*inactive guilds/dead guilds would be swapped out even faster

[Kezef]

@Snooj

This means during GW week, there wouldn’t be another event. This is exactly what I said in the OP we shouldn’t do.

Fine. Alternate plan. Then run both Guild Wars and Tower of Doom in those sixth-week slots. And since you’d have identical six-week rotations for both Monday-Sunday and Friday-Sunday events, stick the Arena weekend (or the Vault) on the weekend spot of that.

But you also stop introducing new Doom weapons for a while. At least for one full rotation through the Tower of Doom stuff, and maybe on a semi-irregular basis after that. As to give much of the community a chance to catch up with Doom scrolls and upgrading those weapons.

You have a little less Guild Wars – once every six weeks as opposed to once every four – but you compensate for it by doubling the frequency of Tower of Doom. And while those two overlap, the only people liable to complain about the necessary time investment are those people who spend an hour per Guild Wars match because reasons.

I suggested pulling Guild Wars outside of the campaign loop as to pre-empt complaints that people could “buy” an advantage by way of having artifact bonuses, in particular people who might have the Elite+ pass and therefore extra stats for a couple of weeks. That wouldn’t matter for the Tower of Doom because a few points of stats doesn’t really matter higher up in the Tower.

And by sticking the Arena as the weekend add-on, there isn’t as much pressure to do quite so many things at once. Which is part of my rationale, in that I read a lot of complaints on these forums that some of the top-end players and guilds don’t appreciate feeling so overwhelmed with stuff they “need” to do.

[Denthegod]

Screw that I’ll take the easy wins. The AI in guild wars suck donkey balls. The only reason I bother with it is because my guild requires it. Just to be clear: I do my best when I play guild wars. My problem is the huge AI spikes and rng nerfs that get implemented. It’s dumb and it’s retarded. I have no problem if I get outplayed but messing with the rng and AI is bs. If getting easy wins is the best way to get me through guild wars as quickly and painlessly as possible then I’m all for it.

[Snooj]

Ahhhhhh the difficulty continues!

One person guild today. The most they can get is 9,800. As long as we get five people with unique, terrible defense teams we will win with 10,000. Yikes. Five whole people. I dont know how we can manage.

We get 25-30 people participating in GW. Even if they all lose, because of unique defense team points, at worst we will get 50,000 points. I don’t know, is 50,000 > 9,800?

We have more than 50,000 so far today. That’s good, right?

Wish us luck!!

[Snooj]

It is Sunday. Here are the results so far. Look at how close we all scored!!!

Please fix brackets. This is ridiculous after 1.5 years. 1 dead guild, 7 guilds that aren’t even close, and only 1 guild that can compete.

I didn’t even cherry pick this. I picked this week assuming it’d be like every other GW. It’s broken. Fix the brackets.

[Rubendog123]

I agree 100% with that
Our guild is about the same timeframe 1 1/2 yrs and same issues although this one we had a guild ranked higher than us and actually made it interesting. Not sure how the brackets are made up but usually the only interesting part is who in the guild will be sentinel

[Snooj]

1 year 7 months of climbing brackets. Results of the week:

This is a joke, right?

Only two guilds should be in this bracket, Prancypants and the #2 guild. We didnt even fight each other! #3 and below got less than if everyone set up unique defense teams. Why are we in the same bracket?

1 year 7 months, and we still aren’t matched against equal guilds. This is way too long.

Tossing an idea out there: If everyone participates in GW, even if they lose every fight they will get 12,000 points for unique defense teams. GW scores are based off the top 27 people, so, at minimum, a guild where everyone participates will have 324,000 points. Set up two leagues where one league requires 324,000 points minimum.

In my bracket, the third guild and below got less than that minimum.

[Sytro]

@Snooj

Tossing an idea out there: If everyone participates in GW, even if they lose every fight they will get 12,000 points for unique defense teams.

That’s why in other topic i’ve suggested dropping 2x bracket_number all guilds who score less than 12000 total → that’s not even a 1-man-fighting-for-his-survival-guild… these are like guild corpses, that are lying arround just for players to flip over them…

[Snooj]

@Sytro

That’s why in other topic i’ve suggested dropping 2x bracket_number all guilds who score less than 12000 total → that’s not even a 1-man-fighting-for-his-survival-guild… these are like guild corpses, that are lying arround just for players to flip over them…

This is also a good idea. There was only one guild like that in my bracket, but in the next bracket there were several.

At one point the devs defended keeping dead guilds in higher brackets because in the oast they earned it. Not sure why dead guilds are being helped more than active guilds that are presently earning it.

[Magnusimus]

@Snooj

At one point the devs defended keeping dead guilds in higher brackets because in the oast they earned it. Not sure why dead guilds are being helped more than active guilds that are presently earning it.

Especially because it was easier to get higher ranking back then, even if only (and this is not the “only”) because there were fewer guilds.