We have hope that better troops are coming. The problem is they could’ve waited to nerf valkyrie when the better troops were coming out. Instead they nerfed her, and put a trait on troops that don’t even make sense.
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Very true. They’re forcing us to make decisions, as I said before. It’s not ideal but that’s the direction they want to go.
We have to face the fact that the high level economy in this game was broken for a long time. Those of us that didn’t benefit from it are now going to suffer as they clamp down on it. 
I never said I was getting less souls. I said you need to use junk to get the max. Surely using poor troops that slow you down makes the design choice even more ridiculous?
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thats exactly why i was disappointed when i didnt see necromancer buffed in the patch. necromancer had huge chance to be the solution
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Wow, look at this thread. LOL
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On a slightly related but tangential topic, does anybody think they should raise the soul payouts for completing purple guild tasks?
1000 souls for level 12 seems REALLY light.
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I’m going to agree with you on that, but that’s it. That’s all you’re getting out of me. Bye.
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There’s another aspect to this situation. Did anyone consider the fact that DEVs might actually want to reduce rapid soul farming via explore a bit? Because if that was their goal, it was executed flawlessly. As a result you can’t really do those 30 sec explore games for max souls anymore, because you have to spend extra 10-15 sec using valk 1 more time, or settle for less souls. Same goes for the pvp (but honestly? many games require at least 3 casts anyway, and if you do enough pvp you don’t care if every 3rd or even every 2nd game you get 50 souls instead or 76).
In return we got the option to actually have HIGHER soul cap than ever before. So the potential is out there. They want to reward creative people or maybe just create a background for the future? Anyone considered that we might get nice necro trait troops in the future? Take a step back for a moment, stop thinking here and now, and take a look at the bigger picture.
Games change, it’s inevitable. No one of us here is entitled to those max souls in this or that specific amount of time. If @Sirrian decided it’s time to balance things out, that’s the way it’s going to be now. Besides, only because things work the way they do now, no one says they can’t or won’t be further adjusted in the future, after they get some data of how the new system works.
Sorry but it started to remind me a little bit of the topic from yesterday where a guy was complaining “because his hero got nerfed”, after hero stats got finally fixed (and inb4 replies like “that was a bug, this is PREMEDITATED NERF FFS”, it’s just a loose comparison 
)
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I have thoroughly enjoyed this debate!
Thanks again @ogunther for starting the thread.
Thanks @Robert for your brilliant memes!
Thanks @HKdirewolf for your clear passion.
Thanks @htismaqe for all of your support throughout.
But alas, I must away…
I have souls to farm!
lol
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ROFL. Just post a big meme. You’ll feel better.
@Fifthelement
Before you call other players’ intelligence into question, you should do your research first.
Sirrian did in fact say that part of the reason for the change was because they felt Valkyrie was overused. He literally stated the following: “We’re nerfing Valkyrie because she has an unhealthy rate of play.” He even posted a shiny graph to seal his point.
For those who keep stating the devs didn’t “nerf” Valkyrie, I’ll take the devs’ own words for the fact that they consider it a nerf.
Link to Sirrian’s comment:
Back to the general topic:
Now, the reason I dislike the Valkyrie nerf is because it falsely gives the impression that this problem is fixed. In my opinion, it isn’t fixed at all. Instead of being shackled to one troop to get a decent amount of souls, I’m shackled to a handful of others ones as well. A great solution to the soul problem would have been to decouple soul creation from troops entirely. Give more souls per troop kill. That way, everyone would be free to make creative teams that fit their playstyle. That would actually lead to true variety in team building.
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Your assertion was you need “3 necromancy troops plus soul a generator to gain max souls”. I was simply stating that this would only give you the max possible per battle, which is a meaningless metric, when per minute is what matters. Because of that, if I were even attempting to just max soul gains per unit time, I’d go for one in PvP, and two for explore. Still pretty restrictive in terms of team builds if you want to get souls the fastest (probably more so than what valk was at pre-patch), but filling every slot with necromancy would end up being much slower in the end.
By the way, there are a number of teams that are roughly as fast as prepatch (TDS usually hitting the cap every battle now, while valk falling just short instead of the reverse in “normal” PvP play), but this number hasn’t really grown to include a bigger pool of troops - that is the actual problem. Single cast valk explore clear took the biggest hit, but TDS explore teams can currently get more per minute (will be slightly less than prepatch once necro hits 25%)… but overall take 50% longer per match, so 33% less traitstones. Two shot explore souls teams are fairly unaffected. Its not that bad, but its also not the shining beacon a lot of people are making it out to be.
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Im aware of the concept. If getting the max souls requires 3 potato troops then it speaks for itself. My argument is the use of vegetables, not a loss in souls.
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Thank you. This succinctly explains the entire issue.
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[quote=“Ashasekayi, post:295, topic:14368, full:true”]A great solution to the soul problem would have been to decouple soul creation from troops entirely.
[/quote]
Fully agree. I would like to all resources ultimately decoupled from specific troops. We should ideally be building our teams based on match micro-tactics, not on macro-economics.
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at no point did I do that, but if you feel insecure, I suppose there’s nothing I can do about it.
Much wow really, try to point out that you consider other people around intelligent and you get called out for doing … the opposite? It seems there’ll always be people out there to pick on the least relevant part of any given comment.
nice quote from Sirrian, I haven’t seen it before. Now I wonder what he’d say off the record about the problem. If he’d actually say that valkyrie got “NERFED” 
Sorry but he was forced to respond for a topic 100-comments long where every second post was screaming VALKYRIE GOT NERFED. Maybe he really considers the change a BIG NERF, or maybe he just used the phrase to deliver the message to people who seemed to not understand any other words. I don’t know, probably only he does. We could also argue about the actual meaning of the word “nerf”. Does the valkyrie give less souls in period of time comparable to the old version? yes. In that aspect you can call it a “nerf”, if you want to. Was it a HUGE gamebreaking change? no. So there’s no point in making drama like it was god knows what kind of a NERF.
If you bothered to read my comment to the end, instead of picking on the first few sentences, you’d get to the part where I explained why valkyrie couldn’t have kept the necromancy trait. Unless you are just against ANY CHANGE AT ALL AND GIVE ME BACK MY OLD VALKYRIE - in which case I have nothing more to say.
If you bothered to read my entire post, you’d have noticed I said basically the same thing
That is not entirely true. You don’t HAVE TO use multiple necromancy troops, you do it only if you want to use the new increased cap. The valkyrie change did not KILL your soul gain, it decreased it by a bit (and only in the games where you don’t cast her 3rd time, else it’s exactly the same as before).
That I would agree with too.
And that. See? You really don’t have a reason to be insecure about your intelligence. Have a good one.
Just some observations from someone that actually benefited from the change on both my accounts. This in no way invalidates the complaints of the majority. I’m sure I’d be upset if I had an account that needs souls and is missing The Dragon Soul.
One interesting thing to note is that for high level players that don’t need tons of souls anymore, this is actually a BUFF to Valk. At level 863, immune to Mana Burn instead of excess souls sounds good to me. I was hitting the soul cap in two Valk casts anyway, and I’m still making more than enough souls to instantly level all the new troops.
I also have a level 89 account. Valk got nerfed pretty hard here. Lucky for me, I wasn’t really using Valk on this account anyway. The Dragon Soul is just so strong at low levels that I only use a TDS team for PvP.
The Necromancy changes to raise the cap ended up being a boon actually. I changed up my team to include Keeper of Souls and now it makes 1.5x souls in the same amount of time as before (TDS’s AoE damage gets reduced from 17 to 14, but KoS makes up for it by speeding up picking off a single straggler when a troop revives or summons on death).
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Must feel good. Its usually the likes of you that takes the brunt of updates!
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You don’t get to dictate what anyone on the forum responds to. There was nothing else in your post that hadn’t been said in this debate already. Therefore, I had no reason to write about them. My point stands that you were incorrect when you stated that Valkyrie wasn’t nerfed for overuse. You were wrong. Period.
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At least we have something to look forward to in terms of new troops that will come that gives souls or has the necromancy trait. After all we can now get a bigger set up of soul farming teams, I think that was what the Devs had in mind, to have a bigger collection of soul troops, and then again after raised the cap to 60, valk might have been too powerful with having Necromancy also, in fact she is just a rare troop. The Devs might have a few troops ready after all we know that has nice skills with giving souls or Necromancy trait.
But again, what Sirrian said was only: That she was nerfed for overuse. But I must admit that I think they will focus a little more on troops with soul skills and we will see more Necromancy troops in the future.