Even higher reliance on Valkyrie come next patch, healthy?


#1

As the title says, the different between teams using soul spawners and those who don’t…its just too high. So much so that anyone between lvl 1 and 500 probably will have to use her, or the dragon soul on their team.

Normal souls from a match are something like 5, 6 maybe? vs. +40 plus with valkyrie? These are all before bonuses mind you. In pvp it is the difference between 15 souls and 140 souls for me. How could i ever play a team without her? I want to play with other troops, but I cant because I need souls so badly. Plz find another way to let us get a reasonable amount of souls. Having Valkyrie be even more of a requirement come next patch is not good for the game in the long run. I only have 3 troops I really can add to a team, and one of them has to be blue.

I know lots of advanced players dont care at all about souls, but for 90% of the population it matters. Making Valk a near requirement for any team is not good for the health of the game.

Cheers,
H.G.


#2

There won’t be a higher reliance on Valkyrie; there will be a higher reliance on 2 Valkyries. :wink:


#3

This is why I’m trying to power my kingdoms with souls primarily and saving my traitstones. I really don’t like grinding for traitstones and I don’t want to have to grind for souls as well.


#4

Lets wait for the full changelog. Hopefully they changed Necromancy because normal soul income is increased.


#5

Yup. It’s seems insane how long this game has gone with having valk be the primary soul generator (I’m fairly new, don’t have dragon soul.) I concur, I feel almost forced to use valkyrie in any team I have because of how she gets you 10x-15x more souls than almost anything else in the game, probably barring dragon soul and maybe the hero class that has the trait for souls on 4-5 matches.

However, there is the whole deal of how easily obtained these generators are:
-Dragon Soul is gold rarity (epic?) I probably won’t have him for a while
-Hero trait for souls is the third trait, which requires insane stone grinding
-Valkyrie is a green rarity (uncommon?) and far easier to come across

I’d kinda hope the devs would just tack on “generate X souls” to like 10% of the troops, especially for things like Keeper of Souls and the one chick that has the stake ability (but only gens 1 soul I think?) Even better, it would be nice to at least give decent soul gen to one of those kingdom storyline purple rarity guys that you get at the end of the quest line.


#6

I have used Mercy in 95+% of my matches up to level 450. No way having fun for more than a few test matches with other teams while allways missing those souls.
Then I was finished leveling all my troops and the automatic monthly income surpasses the release new troops.
At that point it felt like playing a totally other game! Playing and experimenting without that nagging voice “you miss out on souls! you are ineffective!” feals great!

Dear Devs, I understand you want to sell souls for money. Thats the way this game (and hell) is financed. But cant you increase the souls gained per slain enemy to 1 per creature level? Killing a full mythic team would net 80 souls. I get 120 cap with valk atm. Seem resonable for me.

Do it for the sake of keeping the game healthy, the playerbase more interested and give me a friggin way to dump that excess souls in any kind of task/slotmachine/guildfund.:laughing:

Thanks for your attention,
Eye


#7

For a good read and to prevent repetition: Getting tired of Valkyrie
I really would like to hear the devs thoughts on this issue… @Sirrian?


#8

There are a number of ways to make this better:

  1. Make killing each troop in pvp yield 10 souls (aka 40souls of 60 max even without valk)

  2. Make the hero class that yields souls not be horrible as hell, one soul? are you serious what a joke. How about 5 souls per 4x match? It might actually make the class somewhat useful.

  3. Make the hero weapon (blue/Yellow) give 0+magic souls not ONE SINGLE soul. Seriously, why does this weapon have to suck so bad. For that matter why do a large portion of the weapons in the game have to be horrible?

@ kharybdys

everything said there is relavant, but now even more so since Necromancy is going to be EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, and valk will become EVEN MORE NECESSARY! How is this good for the game? every week we get more troops but they dont even matter since everyone is still playing with valk.

It is used TWICE as much as the next troop.

You cant nerf it outright without screwing 95% of your playerbase, because most of the players havn’t had the benefits that older players have. You need a new way to get souls that doesnt require use of any specific troops. I think a much higher base soul reward for killing each troup would be ideal.

What if souls were based on troop level? Aka a team of troops that total 8000 or more give full souls: 40 total. and those below 8000 get a percentage of the 40 souls based on the difference?

there are so many unique and clever ways to address this issue, and it will get worse and worse the longer it goes unchanged.

cheers,
H.G.


#9

Or killing a troops is worth (1 + # of traits) souls. So an untraited troop is worth 1, as it is now. A fully traited troop is worth 4. A fully traited team is 16.


#10

Judging from the fact that they plan on releasing a souls trait on a future legendary, they seem to not want to increase base values but rather increase farming options. I don’t really like this direction, but it seems to be the one they have chose, so I’ll try to make suggestions that are in line with that.

My proposal was just to nerf necromancy into a flat “gain (an extra) 2 souls when an enemy dies”, then add it to more troops by replacing some of the less useful traits. This would give a baseline of +8 soul gain per battle when using a necromancy troop without having to use Valk. If this were added to about a dozen more troops, it would slightly reduce the reliance on Valk while still giving more team options and paving the way to allow extra generators to fill in the gaps. The current Necromancy has very little usage outside of with Valk, and the proposed one relies even more on Valk. At the same time, the proposed 25% Necromancy requires more casts of Valk overall to gain the current amount, extending the time to “farm” even more, while only increasing the amount of souls you’ll gain with her if you cast her multiple times (primarily achieved in areas where fighting stronger opponents, such as PvP). Newer players that cant consistently hit +28 additional soul gains in battle from Valk are hurt even more.

And yes, I say Valk, not Valk and Dragon Soul and Ensoul, because Ensoul would need 28 match 4-5s to reach the level where increasing the cap would make a difference, and Dragon Soul shares at least one color with every single troop that has Necromancy, in addition to having some pretty poor synergy. Ensoul also needs to be +2 or +3.

The best thing that can happen here is just to increase baseline gains but then add an outlet for souls once you no longer need them for leveling. Lets have everyone get past this stage of the game, not extend it even further. Souls are not something that are “nice to have”, they are essential to progress in the game because you need them for kingdom stars. There was an entire several month period in the game where I measured my progress pretty much entirely on how many souls I gained that week.

I understand them not wanting to have people get to the point where certain resources are pointless and make things like the guild souls task more attractive by proxy, but this is not the way to go about it. Any changes to battle soul generation aren’t going to affect anyone like myself that already have a couple hundred thousand souls, let alone a couple million - these souls rewards are still “useless”. Lets not hurt everyone else by trying to make them seem like they aren’t.


#11

Exactly what was said, above. I am in the middle ground, I DEPEND HEAVILY ON SOULS and at this point the only viable teams I can use post patch use DOUBLE VALK! How is this good for the game?

Changing things this way hurts the longest users the least, and new players the most, and players like myself…just makes things a whole lot more boring. I know that any team I build without valk is suboptimal.

YET, valk cant be nerfed or it will hurt new players EVEN MORE! Just plz increase base souls gained in matches to a reasonable level. Finishing a whole quest line from start to finish doesn’t even yield enough souls to lvl a common troop from 10 to 11 unless you are using valk…How stupid is that? and you want us to be able to have a full team of lvl 16s or higher? forget getting all troops up to a reasonable lvl for gaining stars, without valk it is literally IMPOSSIBLE in any reasonable amount of time. Come on devs, the changes could be ok, but you have to also increase base souls in matches(by a lot).

Cheers,
H.G.


#12

I reserve judgment until the changelog is published. For all we know, the changes make sense only within a larger context. That being said, my thoughts on the current soul disparity and reliance on Valkyrie are in the thread @Kharybdys linked.


#13

I’m all for letting the patch be know first, but this needs to be in their mind for future balance. And by future I mean immediate if it turns out to be hurtful.

Cheers,
H.G.


#14

I do not understand how the guildwar update will affect how much valkyrie will get used or not used. If it releases a large quantity of troops then yes valkyrie will see more use, regardless of if they are blue. The troops have to be really good to run with valkyrie.


#15

I’m with @Lyya here; like anyone, the devs occasionally make some seemingly boneheaded decisions but by-and-large they tend to make good decisions even if they aren’t always the ones I’d wish they made. I mostly find I wish they’d make changes faster rather than have much of a problem with the changes they do implement…of course that’s par for the course with smaller dev teams.

You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. ― John Lydgate
:wink:


#16

Thank you! I tried my best to remember who said that. It was driving me nuts.

We all should try to show patience and faith that the Devs will do what is best for the games longevity. Myself included.


#17

My prediction for the guild wars update is more use of the guardians or goblins for guild wars


#18

Right now, there is no real progression for players without using Valkyrie, seriously. If I didn’t use a soul generator while being in pvp I would never be able to lvl any troops. 100 battles in pvp has given me 14000 souls. If I hadn’t been using it that number goes down to 1400. Based on the information we have it is only going to go up more. I will be able to get even more per match with valk and the same when NOT using it. How am I jumping the gun when the problem already exists, and spoiled changes are looking to increase the problem?

Cheers,
H.G.


#19

I’ve been using Valkyrie (now dragon soul, but with this update back to Valkyrie) for at least 6 months of active play time. Every single game (pretty much). I still only have half the souls I need.

It gets really really stale playing the same team over and over and over again. Thinking back, I’m not sure how I’ve even managed to continue playing through the horribly boring grind at times. Must be because every few months there was a blue troop that switched up my team slightly enough to keep my interest.

I don’t know how that could be considered healthy to the game. It feels like this issue could be a deterrent to people. The game is a blast when you’re really low level and aren’t sucked into the Valkyrie soul grind… and then you are. And then you use the same team or two for months and months and months of playing. I don’t usually lose my attention too quickly to things (o get attached easily), so someone that gets more annoyed about doing the same exact team over and over would probably quit.

The soul issue needs to be addressed.

The healthiest way is to increase base to an actual reasonable number, in my opinion. You’d be slower to get your souls and still be encouraged to use Valkyrie or dragon soul, but at least when you don’t use them because there are millions of other troop combos you want to try, you don’t feel like you’re wasting your time (bc you should be farming).

That still would keep you farming for souls for the same amount of time (or even longer for some people that would now stop using Valkyrie with this change) and thus would still promote soul sales. The only thing it would improve is team variety. But only if the base souls are close to the efficiency of valk.


#20

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to jump in a discuss some of the stuff going on here. While I can’t go into too much detail (you’ll have to wait for patch notes for all changes), I will say we are looking to add more troops that create souls (like Dragon Souls and Valkyrie), while a few older soul generators might get a small buff.

We’re currently got a list of changes we’re testing for the next update.