Nerf Dragon's Eye already! (or alternatively, buff all other transform troops)


#41

and if you’re letting the AI fill 15 brown mana, you should enjoy that baby dragon.


#42

Or make one brown match of the two on the board, which mana surges and combines with their banner to fill the “fast” AI on turn 1. As has happened to me.


#43

not as the Orbweaver


#44

Think they’re pointing out Mana Shield on Orbweaver :wink:

Plus can get 15% mana start for all allies too.


#45

Order of Operation:

Rockwell: zap it
Fourdottwoone: stealthy
jzg: Sloth
Fourdottwoone: Orbweaver
TheIdleOne: enjoy the baby dragon for 15 brown mana.

Grundulum: turn 1 fill from 1 match
TheIdleOne: not happening in 1 turn, 1 match as an Orbweaver

I’m well aware of them pointing out the Mana Shield, but that hero has no 50% start. 15% mana start is such a poor value on most troops, its barely worth using. But sure, DE gets 2? mana from that? It rounds down after all. 13 mana of one color for the 1st cast, boogyman status right?


#46

For some, yes. Hence, this thread exists…


#47

ca. 60 Fight loose because of dragon eye i hate this Weapon on PvP :rage: is worse than Mana drain times with Psion etc.


#48

Dragon eye very bad yes pvp and guildwars ^^


#49

Over time I’m less serious about nerfing it (mostly because I can’t think of a way to keep its good qualities) but:

Nerf threads pop up because a team’s frustrating. This team’s frustrating.

Every godforsaken Goblins thread has some guy who shows up and believes he’s Anu’s Gift because he lets everyone in on the secret that is Gob-Chomper, or Mab, etc. Heck, I had fun doing that for a while.

But the heart of the nerf threads is focusing on that one board and RNG configuration where you get to watch Nobend, Fizzbang, and another random goblin play ring around the rosie for 8-10 free moves while your Gob-Chomper sits there, lusting, and Mab twiddles her thumbs, waiting patiently for her turn. Then you get to make one move. Then the goblins tag-team again and 10 minutes later they finally get around to executing your team.

A lot of it comes down to feeling, that thing that also makes us gripe about the RNG. No one sane ever argues “I can’t beat this team” and that’s the straw-man “just use Psion” is fighting.

The argument here is “If you put Psion against some other team it can beat for 10,000 matches, then you put Psion against this team for 10,000 matches, you would find a notable difference in the win rate and I feel like it would be too big a difference.”

It’s cool to disagree. It just looks smarter to have a better opinion than “use this obvious team lulz”. Really the best dissenting opinion is “Eh, I don’t have a lot of trouble with it.” or posting some team you think is unintuitively good at winning.


#50

Make the most of it until the next new meta comes along :joy:


#51

Oh, another funny joke, seen you posted that SS.

Notice the def stats of the 3 guildies, all using taipan def.

Seen DE is so unwinnable what about post a SS where a DE def is like 200 wins 10 losses? oh wait, there’s none on the whole leaderboard, actually there’s none with more wins than losses.

Once again the cryalotaboutDE thread became a joke.

As x nerfing it would be np, raise the cost to 32, take away the trasform that create so many rivers and lakes and replace it with Zully spell, done (multicasr ofc and dont say it’s op, everyone is saying Zully is useless rofl).


#52

One Dragon’s Eye cast is all it takes to completely screw over a team and make a winnable game into one that is unwinnable or takes over 10 minutes to barely get a win or prolonging the inevitable loss. The ‘nerf’ only affected delves and was a buff to PvP which again, is problematic. As it stands and as others have mentioned, for the cost, it is far stronger than any other transform troops.

Possessed King does AOE with 3 20% chance to transform… that’s a mythic, the rarest type.
Toadstool has a 20% chance to transform and creates gems, it is a common but the chance is slim like Possessed King.
Night Hag is around 33% due to it being one of three effects but considering transform seems to be on the rarer side, it will probably be around 30%. Typically never seen in PvP as well as Toadstool… speaking of which…
Lust has 2 40% chances to turn an enemy into a Incubus or Succubus. That’s the highest chance that isn’t Dragon’s Eye BS.

Dragon’s Eye on the other hand? 100% chance to transform and mana generation by destroying gems. Typically ran with a 50% mana start class and +2 brown mana meaning it’ll always be active way before your team gets active. One transform is all it takes to ruin a team comp that relies on everyone being alive. Silent Sentient is useless once transformed into a baby dragon in the front line or Ubastet.

The ONLY troop anyone has right now that can resist transform is the Doom of Ice and that thing is seriously underwhelming with a 25 mana blue cost and it takes at least 4 matches to get it active. 3 if you take a 15% mana to all troops class trait but it still requires more set up compared to the hero who can be stealthy, have barrier on brown and so forth.

My guess is you just avoid all Dragon’s Eye fights and so don’t care about the discussion at hand since others do have issues with it and considering there is a weapon which, if it kills an enemy, it turns the user into a Baby Dragon. Why can’t the Dragon’s Eye do that as well on the hero? Both sides get crippled badly due to that.

There are other issues with PvP like empowered but the big one being Dragon’s Eye. 15 mana (1 surge with 50% start) instantly cripples a team, especially with Gimlet or someone else who changes a color to brown and has empowered. However, the issue is Dragon’s Eye for this case. I have an idea, devs, make a delve room that a Hero with Dragon’s Eye on it and have it use it all the time on everyone so they get an idea on how ‘fun’ it is to be in a long dragged out fight.

Perhaps that would help settle the matter and on why it needs to be nerfed.


#53

Lol wut? i actually attack anything there’s on 3 trophy without wasting time scouting lol.

Not gonna spam pvp this week so for now only got 2 losses, 1 was with the match where the ai decided to win an already lost match (the tpk i talked about before) and 1 vs a taipan def using sunspear class (that’s something that should be removed from the game lol.

With Glaycion, bloodhammer, hero with whriting staff (or w/e is the name) and gimlet dont have any prob with any def except the above mentioned (if hero is sunspear, if not dont have much probs with taipan either).

However, you can write 1 or 2 essay (or cry an ocean) sadly the STATS everyone can see are that DE defs are lot worser, aka easier, than taipan ones, best you can find on leaderboard is about 50% win/loss.

I’ve almost got the feeling that those who want DE nerfed to the ground already completed delve with it and wanna make lot harder for those that still got to do while they can act as big pros linking their lvl 500 delve completed.

Anyway, as the other thread, since i cant swim very well, gotta leave keep crying over nothing and hf.


#54

“No DE defense wins more than some %” is disingenuous because the AI is very bad at what it does. If you are comparing defense win rates to offense win rates, every team looks perfect.

For a long time I played Divines with the same team on defense. For a long time I maintained around a 90% offense win rate, but my defense rate hovered between 40% and 60%. In GW days people are ecstatic to get better than 50% and in theory the offense is handicapped that day. My hunch is if a PvP defense team can consistently pull off better than 60% it’s exceptionally good. My lifetime PvP defense numbers put me at 42% on defense. That feels about right for everything I’ve used but DE so far.

But you have a point. It would be interesting to see more people set a DE defense and post its win rate. We could compare it to the win rates of other teams and get a feel for if it seems to be performing overly well. I’d do it myself but I’m testing a different defense team out right now, and if you switch mid-week then the results aren’t as useful.


#55

It’s hard to rely on the in game statistics because they are broken. Losses count as wins etc.


#56

Fight fire with fire, use dragons eye against dragons eye based defenses :+1:


#57

It was all fun and games until one of the hero’s got turned into a dragon :joy:


#58

i Think i’ll Try a Drgaon Eye + Yao Gai + Ubastet defense… with Psion in front.


#59

I agree. 50% at best. This 100% bullcrap is insane. I didn’t spend 3 months farming souls for a Dawnbreaker to get my ass kicked by a schoolyard toy.


#60

Perhaps a fix where it can only target non-dragons? The bit that really infuriates me is when it transforms things it already transformed (and I then ‘evolved’ into a new dragon). There would then be viable defenses using the dragonguard class too.