Nerf Dragon's Eye already! (or alternatively, buff all other transform troops)


#1

Screw that item. 15 mana for a guaranteed Transform?! SUCH BS! This infuriates me in PvP especially since it activates so easily and if they have an empowered (Should have no effect in PvP or delves) troop to create brown, good bye your team. It should NOT be a guaranteed transform and if they want to argue it, go on, make ANY transform troop 100% and see where that takes it.

Lust with 2 guaranteed transforms
Possessed King with 3 guaranteed transforms
Night Hag with the guaranteed transform + effect on a different troop
Toadstool guaranteed transform

Does anyone else think that sounds absolutely stupid or what? It needs either a mana cost buff (32), a one time only cast or turn the user into a baby dragon as well to prevent spamming it to high hell and wasted 10 minutes each time! Oh and, it’s also paired with Titan… so you know you are screwed from the beginning.


#2

So what you’re insinuating is because this weapon causes you trouble sometimes that it should be made unusable? Despite the recent nerf it already got nontheless


#3

You try fighting it over and over in PvP only to end up getting slaughtered because the Eye turned your mana generator into a baby dragon then your main damage dealer and like that until they inevitably win. Go on. Empowered Troops are also a problem but Dragon’s Eye especially is a problem. The nerf also was meant for PvE (Which is already stupid due to high level delves).

It’s PvP that the problem arises or are you saying you want EVERYTHING that can one shot be allowed to have 15 mana, be allowed to cast it as much as they want and have nothing be immune to it? So you want to be transformed over and over by a Possessed King? Lust? Devoured by Great Maw because whoops, no longer one time only and no devour options working.

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? Yet Dragon’s Eye is allowed to get away with it because? There is nothing else in the game that is a guaranteed Instant Kill/Devour or Transform that isn’t restricted to a one time only ability like Zuul’goth or The Great Maw. Yet you’ll still defend it because “It’s already been nerfed”


#4

In my opinion, it shouldn’t have gotten the Nerf it already got (and I say this as someone who doesn’t play Delves nor as someone who even uses the weapon at all, these days). But, I don’t have to use something to disagree with how it’s treated. Its a Mythic level weapon for Pete Sake. Its supposed to feel worth those stones.

As for your PvP experience, yeah, that stinks for you, and I’m sorry for that. But, these constant Nerf threads (and the Devs follow through with them, thereafter) are harmful to the game, in my opinion. Nerfing is not the only way to balance the game. Buff weaker troops to make them more appealing, make some useful troops (ie, not Dooms) immune to things like Transform. That is how you balance things.

This crying “Nerf!” every 5 seconds is not the (only) answer. By the way, my comment isn’t directed at the OP, specifically, just a general opinion.


#5

I defend it because that’s what makes it unique in it’s aspect. The challenge comes with trying to beat it. There is no satisfaction with playing the same boring cloned teams day in and day out. I enjoy the uniqueness with some of these troops and weapons. Being a versatile and creative individual i like to come up with various team that given the right variables causes problems. Nerfing this weapon (once again) will not only show that people lack creativity, but give up because it’s not an effortless battle. I don’t believe Dragon’s Eye is that bad in it’s current state. Even if it was though where would the fun be if there was nothing over the top?


#6

In my opinion, it shouldn’t have gotten the Nerf it already got (and I say this as someone who doesn’t play Delves nor as someone who even uses the weapon at all, these days). But, I don’t have to use something to disagree with how it’s treated. Its a Mythic level weapon for Pete Sake. Its supposed to feel worth those stones.
As for your PvP experience, yeah, that stinks for you, and I’m sorry for that. But, these constant Nerf threads (and the Devs follow through with them, thereafter) are harmful to the game, in my opinion. Nerfing is not the only way to balance the game. Buff weaker troops to make them more appealing, make some useful troops (ie, not Dooms) immune to things like Transform. That is how you balance things.
This crying “Nerf!” every 5 seconds is not the (only) answer. By the way, my comment isn’t directed at the OP, specifically, just a general opinion.

Yet people were crying for Scorpius nerfs after he got reverted and he’s still the way he is. Not to mention that, any other troop either requires set up or is down to luck to trigger. Neither are guaranteed or if they are, it’s one time only like, I don’t know, The Great Maw! Speaking of him, he devours but Indigestible, Fortitude (Titan again) and something else completely stop him from doing anything and wastes it.

Transform? Nothing is immune to it except Dooms and they are flat out useless. Again, Possessed King is 3 times at a 20% chance. Imagine that being at 100% on all 3? Does that sound like fun? Going from a full team to a broken down, 3 weakened, no traited Daemon team? No? Thought so. Similar with Lust turning 2 of your team into Succubus or Incubus and while it’s at 40% each, it’s still not guaranteed. Need I go on?

I defend it because that’s what makes it unique in it’s aspect. The challenge comes with trying to beat it. There is no satisfaction with playing the same boring cloned teams day in and day out. I enjoy the uniqueness with some of these troops and weapons. Being a versatile and creative individual i like to come up with various team that given the right variables causes problems. Nerfing this weapon (once again) will not only show that people lack creativity, but give up because it’s not an effortless battle. I don’t believe Dragon’s Eye is that bad in it’s current state. Even if it was though where would the fun be if there was nothing over the top?

So what you are saying is you would still defend it if it ignored Invulnerable, transformed the entire enemy team into level 0 Baby Dragons, Poisoned them, burned them, froze them, diseased team, removed all red on the board, entangled them and all for 10 mana which you would get back immediately? You’d defend something like that since that’s over the top for you.

Not to mention, for both of you, the majority of Mythic Weapons are super bad. Some are good and manageable like Orb of Winter but others are just bad and not worth using like Spider Totem.


#7

They are? Where?


#8

I agree with you here. As I said, in my other comment, I feel true balance comes from not only Nerfs, but Buffs and reworks.

In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with Dragon’s Eye, as a concept. This issue is the lack of immunity for it and such. But nerfing it even more doesn’t fix the issue of Transform, as a whole. That’s the equivalent of putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound and saying “Ehh, good enough.”


#9

They have nerfed enough in this game lately. They are gonna end up nerfing peoples interest in playing it if they stay on that path too long.


#10

It was just made less useful in Delve, for PvP it actually got a pretty insane buff.


#11

I find more annoying the extremely good and op tpk, why?

Cuz i cba to waste hundreds thousands souls to level every demon i got but if i dont do will happen again what happened few mins ago, an alone and half life tpk turned my hero and gimlet on 2 stupid lvl ONE common demons (that ofc i never bothered lvl up or trait), on card they was supposed to be lvl 10 but rofl, with +14 from bonus they had 17 attack, now tell me a lvl 10 troop got 3 attack…

As for DE, well it’s annoying and you need a superfast team, but happened aswell i killed the DE dude with the dragons, nerfing it again (and actually they didnt nerfed the DE but screwed up transform in the whole game) would be the same as asking to remove it from the game.

After all there’s many things that can kill you superfast but the reply is that there’s counters and immune stuff? using counters mean change team so where’s the prob in making a team that win on first turn, or second (unless really unlucky with starting board) to use as DE counter?


#12

Can someone explain what’s so good about this weapon, especially in Delves (apparently)? I’ve had it sitting idle and unused in my inventory for a few months now.


#13

Can’t say that i would or wouldn’t cause it’s a hypothetical situation. What i can say is that nerfing it to what you intend it will make it useless.


#14

Exactly. I forgot about that but it is a buff. Before the delve nerf, the level was set at 12 but now it’s half of the current level which for everyone is 10 at best and keeps getting cut down to 0. So in that regard, it’s even more annoying in PvP and definitely needs some nerfs.


#15

It used to be good in delves. It’s not worth using there now. It’s supposed to destroy the synergy of your team by guarenteeing 1 of your troops be turned into a baby dragon


#16

So that ‘destruction of synergy’ has been adjusted/nerfed in Delves or is there another reason?

Edit: Is the weapon still worth using generally? Is it still worth upgrading/wasting Mingots on?


#17

For Delves, the issue wasn’t “destruction of synergy”, it was “replace a level 500 troop with a level 20 Baby Dragon”.

For PvP, it’s easily one of the most powerful weapons available. There’s no protection against it, in the right team you can’t even stall it. Yes, you can win against it, that far too often tends to be a long, miserable, drawn-out fight you wish you had conceded right at the start though.


#18

Thanks. With my lowly troops, I’ve yet to go past level 100-120 in Delves but I can now see how that weapon would be useful there. So, if the weapon’s been “nerfed” in Delves, I assume that means whatever “level 500” enemy you encounter further in is immune to transformation or some such?


#19

No, it now halves the level of the transformed troop, which still leaves a substantial threat around in Delves. For PvP, a level 10 Baby Dragon isn’t just crippled, it’s a liability that other troops can prey on.


#20

I called this a few weeks ago and have been using a Dragon’s Eye PvP defense team to help hasten its demise. People get mad when they have to face the defense a lot. It won’t change if people aren’t mad.

But it’s a tough change. It’s a beloved strategy vs. the current batch of “ridiculously scaled” enemies in Delve and even Tower of Doom. It’s a way for people who don’t yet have “all of the mythics/legendaries associated with this week’s event” to participate. I value that, even if I don’t use it. I like things that help midgamers get to keep pace with endgamers.

But the defense teams I’ve faced with DE can be extraordinarily frustrating to lose to. It’s not just that they shut you down, it’s that they don’t have much damage output so it’s a very slow loss. I’m going to explain the frustrating ones, feel free to use this as your defense. The more of these there are the sooner we’ll get a solution.

Slot 1 hero is possible. In this approach, “barrier on brown” along with the anti-magic whatever keeps it pretty healthy. We’re talking Titan class, so it starts with 50% mana and is often going to transform one of your guys on turn 2. Apothecary’s a good mana generator, though some Empowered troops like Siren are capable of fueling that very early hit. Bonus: all the brown generation keeps the hero perma-barriered. Slot 3 is a bit of a mixup, troops with 4/5 match effects are a pretty good deal there. Finally, you want Ubastet, who is good at assassinating baby dragons and will eat the brown mana you feed it.

I played this on offense in PvP for a couple of weeks and I feel like it was as consistent as Divines.

The Slot 2 approach for hero gives you a different entertaining option. For this, you want a class that summons Bandits and a way to auto-barrier. I don’t remember exactly what class that is, but I swear I’ve fought it. Here’s how that match went:

  • I want to hit the hero and kill it ASAP so it can’t transform my troops. But it’s barriered, I’ll have to settle for killing slot 1 so I can add skull damage to my mix.
  • I kill slot 1, and a bandit is summoned. I’ve got a transformed troop.
  • I kill slot 1 again. A bandit is immediately summoned in its place.
  • I kill slot 1 again and finally get some damage in. Then slot 3 dies by attrition and a bandit is summoned again…

These matches go on and on and on and on. They aren’t fun.

When I set one of these as my defense team when I first realized how stupid they were, I woke up to find out that, overnight, I had gone 0-23 on defense. I don’t know what the heck happened because that never happened again, but it was impressive. Since then, I’ve noticed it seems to run better-than-50% on defense and I’ve never seen that out of any defense team.

The main downside of the defense is it’s very reliant on your hero class having specific traits, if you’re thinking of leveling a different class its effectiveness will tank. I think this also makes it very hard to convince people the weapon is a menace: if I fight a DE team that doesn’t have the auto-barriers or heavy summons, I don’t even blink before I win.

I don’t know a good way to nerf it. I think it should stay as offensively powerful, but on defense have some kind of reduction in its rate. This was easier to imagine for “Dawnbringer in Arena” because that’s a pretty narrow context and people don’t even know if you fight their team. Doing it for “all game modes” is tricky because it heavily impacts PvP and even GW strategies.

There’ll be a ton of “I can beat it, it’s fine” arguments but it really comes down to a simple fact about GoW players: they are lazy and don’t like to have to rotate their PvP team between a couple of choices. This is always a big part of people hating very specific defense teams, they want to continuously grind PvP and lose “fairly” at a very small rate. Add a team that shows up about 30% of the time and beats them consistently, and they want a nerf even if there’s some specific counter.