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I know, it's been said before

But there seriously needs to be something done about L&D. Folks, we spent weeks/months acquiring enough souls to purchase DawnBringer. And yet, how many PVP teams do you play against that use it? ZERO. Yet, team after team uses Life&Death. Please, nerf L&D (for example, must it drain, too?), or buff DB. Seems only fair.


I think a lot of support for this has fallen off because a ton of people don’t see PvP as their primary mode anymore. As-is, there’s so much to do in GoW it’s everything I can do to maintain my reqs. This means I usually spend my day doing daily delves, explores, or Arena depending on whether I’m behind on seals or trophies.

There’s not time to have fun in GoW anymore. It’s all chores.


Its because of L&D that PvP sucks now and nobody plays it anymore. The devs are just sticking their heads in the sand on this one but hopefully with another post about it maybe it will reach their sand filled ears.


see a L&D team, use a direct counter or play vs something else. i dont play a ton of PvP but when i do i hardly ever fight vs L&D both because i choose not to and because i dont see many. When i have to fight L&D in GWs its always a win… so it tells me there are enough direct counters covering most all colors. this is likely why L&D isn’t considered a hot nerf item.


I have a main pvp team, and all 6 color teams for GW that can all beat L&D at a high %
And I’m sure I can make tons more

That’s the other reason people have stopped complaining
It’s not hard, likely your teams are mediocre and can be improved upon


Share your team or your words mean nothing.

Thank you!

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Hero with doomed blade or doomed scythe, position, weapon depending on class
Forest guardian, king bloodhammer,possessed king

There ya go
There’s 1 of dozens of teams
Less the delves with faction team level 500, this game is super easy once you’ve played enough to get a decent roster
There will always be the 3% f u rng where team design won’t save u


Thank you. I appreciate your response.


Forest troll, 2x gobtruffle, miraji queen will beat L&D easily.

There are counters for every color and guilds that have good ones wont give them up so stop asking.

In case of a bad board use enough life medals to survive a hit from both hero and weaver.
Dont use miraji queen except to finish as aoe will kill hero without spawning a bunch and webbing up truffles. Could also try that new beetrix to clear webs in place of 2nd truffle, but may occasionally lose loop.

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Thank you for the team suggestions, but that isn’t the point. L&D is clearly seen as the best and most powerful weapon because it’s used SO much in PVP. That should send a signal to the devs that something is askew. I use PVP quite a bit during GW to test teams and theories. But I have to wade through the same team over and over to get any results. I know, whining.

I’d certainly like to see DB buffed. Or maybe another weapons we need to spend millions of souls on that totally kicks L&D. Hey, a kid can dream…

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Nah, L&D is fine. I+2 fixed L&D by nerfing Orbweaver, a class that is completely useless outside of L&D, and didn’t touch L&D itself, which is the actual problem.

Hey, if they won’t actually fix the problem, add a weapon like this: Deal 1 (yes, 1) splash damage to the first and last enemy. The damage is lethal to enemies that are BOTH Blessed and Enchanted.


Said it before and saying it again… L&D is fine. Let it be and ignore it if it has you incensed. It’s not a compulsory fight except for perhaps once a month in wars. EARNHAM as usual is both right and wrong because his solution is very very limited. But then again, I agree that Beatrix is a potentially better counter whilst also a far more potential escalation of the LD cry fest. Beatrix vs gob ? No contest.

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Just because I like to debate/argue. Why am I wrong?

Also the gob vs beatrix ? No contest
What do you mean by this?

Nerf it for what it can be countered easily in pvp…it’s a pain in the arse for gw but for pvp miraji queen and obsidious can easily shut almost any team down

You want to share that team with the rest of the class, mate?

Re read…I said you were right and wrong.

I think the only time ever LD was or is an issue is wars. Beatrix may exacerbate that. Frankly I don’t care…we are all gonna face such wars teams and it will probably even out. But it should not define who is the better guild on absolute RNG based luck of the draw turn zero defence empowerment. Sometimes there is no solution (flawed design) so it’s just something you have to stomach. That’s why I avoid LD in pvp and set it as def when I face a nasty wars adversary to test counter teams. Empowerment is the enemy…not Orbweaver, LD etc.

I dont mind empowerment at all. They just need to make it fair for all colors. The fact that half the empowered converters do green to something else and they seem to be forgetting about brown kind of sucks.

Then I have complete admiration for those such as you who have no sense of injustice when they lose turn 1 in wars through no fault of their own.

@Earnham doesn’t lose to bad starting boards in Guild Wars. And it’s crazy—I, too, was skeptical before I was in his guild, watching him play—but it’s true.

And it’s not a fluke of him never getting bad boards—he just doesn’t lose much at all, and what rare losses he does have aren’t from the starting board (I can personally vouch for multiple 30/0 Guild Wars that I’ve witnessed at this point. That can’t just be good luck, at that point—it’s an ability to roll with bad luck, or mitigate it so that it’s not as much a factor in the outcome).

Dude’s not unbeatable, sure, but he’s the closest I’ve ever seen, personally. Has taught me a lot, and my scores have gone up considerably as a result.

The main trick I’ve learned regarding empowerment is this: counter their converter before you think about how you’ll be countering the troop the converter is meant to fuel.

That’s all the olive branch I can extend to a non-guildmate, but it should at least be somewhat useful advice.

Hope it helps :vulcan_salute: