Harold MEME Thread

Well what I’m apologizing for really is making a thread out of frustration, which resulted in staff intervention on what turns out to be (surprise, surprise) a misconception on my part. Oh well, I’m only human lol

DO like to read everyone’s feedback, warts 'n all.

I remember we paid something to the tune of around ~$10,000 to ultimately find out that our target audience hated our game because it had a Monkey in, it which turned out to be in a round-about way a quasi-religious symbol to that market. So yeah, in a way free complaining can be good thing hehehe

I think that what I was experiencing, more than perceptions of luck was that my expectations, be they conscious or subconscious were out of alignment with reality. I’m not sure you can really measure perceptions of “luck” without understanding what informs those expectations.

This is getting into deep waters. Where do you go from there from a player-experience perspective? Do you “cheat” in the player favor to align reality with expectations? What happens when that illusion breaks? It opens up huuuuuuge cans of worms.

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Yeah it is definitely psychological. A couple of people got the Nobel Prize for it (Kahneman and Tversky).

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It does indeed. Sid Meier gave a great talk about this at GDC 2013 (I think)… about how he dealt with it in Civilization. It’s probably on the internet somewhere… I’m going to go and hunt for it because I want to watch it again now!

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Please drop me a link.

Ahh… CGDC… I’ll never forget (not sure how I can remember tbh) pounding an entire bottle of Vodka at the Microsoft DirectX booth… and then trying to play table tennis…

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Imagine there is a 5% chance at losing a match because of bad luck (looking at leader boards, I see people losing at a rate of 1-10 to 1-40, so 1-20 seems fair).

If so, the chances of losing 4 in 5 matches is roughly 1 in 33,000. Pretty rare right? Now, assume you did 50 fights, well that is 10 blocks of 5. There are about 10,000 people with at least 50 fights so far. So, odds are, at least 3 of them had a run in there where they lost 4 out of 5 matches.

Much like me getting a tribute of 17 kingdoms at once. Or not drawing a mythic from a chest in over 5 months.

Rare things happen rarely, but with enough monkeys at keyboards, they do happen.

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I fought for an hour and won 3 matches, when normally winning 20 straight is frequent.

Then it went on for 6 more consecutive hours.

Like I said above, this is like me winning the lottery 70 times in a row. Not likely, but here you go.

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Or me not getting a single Arcane or Celestial stone in almost 200 explores!

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You are hitting on something that has vexed me since I started playing this game avidly. I’ve complained about how the “RNG” is not random and is biased in the past and been dismissed for it but since this thread seems to have some momentum, here I go.

First, the initial screen when a match starts IS NOT RANDOM. I believe it is chosen from a pool of start screens, because the one thing that never happens AND WOULD HAPPEN is the game starts with a match. If the opening board truly were random we would have occasional matches that start with a match or even a cascade of matches. This shows they have some sort of algorithm in play initially that isn’t ‘RNG’ so much, which means that they could just get rid of the RNG entirely and instead have a drop algorithm that makes for a faster, funner game that is based on you being able to find matches rather than waiting for lucky drops.

Second, when the devs claim that they can’t do anything about it, I would like to point to Bejewelled - where EVERY DROP is not random. How do I know? Because there is never a time when the drop has zero matches. In the 10+ years I’ve played that game I have never had the board reshuffle. I have also never felt “mana screwed” playing that game, even if there was only one match on the whole board to make.

Now when we come to Gems of War, the things I’ve noticed is when I play a mana-limited team, like say a Bombot team. When I play the team, I almost NEVER get brown gems to start and any brown gems are distributed so far apart that they can’t even be manipulated into matches in 2-3 moves. Yes, maybe 1 out of 20 games with my bombot team will start with a 4-match of brown so I can win in one move… but that is so rare.

Now when I get bored of being brown mana screwed, I switch over to a mercy/gards avatar team and what happens? TONS OF BROWN GEMS. (Also, no black or yellow gems to open with mercy’s spell. I feel like I get to use mercy in the first turn maybe 15% of the time, which shows that they really do like to screw with mana dropping.)

The worst thing about this is that I know the devs play Bejewelled, it’s in Sirrian’s bio. So they KNOW it can be done but in the past when I’ve complained about this particular issue they seem to downplay it and claim I’m being too sensitive. My point is that if Bejeweled can make it ‘seem’ random but still give the player a speedy gameplay, you would think we could do the same in GoW.

My biggest beef is with sky drops. Sky drops shouldn’t happen to either the AI or the player - EVER. The reasoning behind this is that we are playing a PUZZLE GAME and not a CASINO GAME. When I win with a sky drop I never feel good about it because it’s not making me feel like I won with skill, rather I won because the RNG-zus said so. I don’t like putting my faith in the game based on RNG-zus, I would rather know that I actually have some level of skill.

The problem is that in the end game, the only way I can play and enjoy it now is if I set my defend team to 1 unit so that I am constantly matched against weaker opponents so it doesn’t matter if it takes me 10 turns to get the mana I need. Otherwise I’d have quit this game a year ago when this “RNG” issue became so bad I could only win 1 out of 10 games like Krudler is complaining here. (I agree with the devs that this isn’t a recent change Krudler is experiencing, but a string of bad luck - which - if the devs are in control of how things drop they could make ‘bad luck breakers’ so you don’t have to wait for that 1 out of 10 games where you aren’t mana screwed.)

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Obviously not, and the same is true after the board shuffles due to no more moves or War Sphinx’s spell. The starting board appears to be random, with 4-matches removed. There are two mechanisms I could see for how they’d achieve this:

  1. Generate a board, then look for 4+ matches. Whereever found, replace one of the gems with one of another random color until all 4+ matches are removed.
  2. Generate a board, then look for 4+ matches. If any are found, generate another board until one has no 4+ matches.

I don’t believe your claim of “chosen from a pool of start screens” holds, because I’ve played many matches, and if there were truly a pool of start screens then the community would have long since discovered the set.

My anecdote counters yours: I am able to power both Bombot and Mercy teams often enough that they’re a reliable staple in my team setups. I’m not sure how they’d decide to give me better drops than you; maybe it’s alphabetical by username?

Disagree. I like the randomness of the match mechanics myself, and wouldn’t want to see this change. I could do without so many instant-kill mechanics in the spells, but I like to play the field as it lies, so to speak, and cascades are just part of the risk you take when you leave a “dangerous” board position open for the AI.

All this being said, I think Sirrian’s point is, even if you are not correct about the bias you perceive (and I disagree on most of your points), the perception of “fun” is really what counts. Perhaps the devs did you a disservice when they turned off the AI combo breaker for all difficulties a year ago.

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[quote=“Lyya, post:53, topic:20024, full:true”]I could do without so many instant-kill mechanics in the spells, but I like to play the field as it lies, so to speak, and cascades are just part of the risk you take when you leave a “dangerous” board position open for the AI.
[/quote]

Yeah, that’s pretty much how I feel about it.

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There is a more direct method. Start in upper left corner and place random gem. Move right, place random. Move right, place random gem that doesn’t create a match to the left (so if first two are blue, this is not blue). Repeat to finish top row. Repeat for second row. On 3rd to 8th row in addition to making sure it doesn’t match 3 to left also make sure it doesn’t match 3 up.

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I have often felt that there are hidden parameters that are set at the start of a match which control aspects of Gem distribution (Total Speculation)

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Yeah, that works too :slight_smile:

Not my first rodeo :wink: One of the sample programs for learning android app coding was developing a simplistic match-3 game.

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I have to agree with @Lyya here as I use a Bombat time almost exclusively for my Explores and while there are plenty of times that I can’t make a brown match right out of the gate, there are plenty of other times where I can. This is most likely just confirmation bias on your part (but that happens to the best of us).

I agree that I dislike sky drops but I also don’t really want them removed for many of the reasons Lynn mentioned, too. I have a solution that is in between both of your play styles but it will never be implemented in GoW simply because it would require a complete overhaul of the game (both UI and mechanics) so I’m saving it for a day that I finally get off my own but and design my own match-3 game :slight_smile:

I’m always curious, when players voice this type of complaint, what is causing the difference in experience between what they (you) are seeing and what I am experiencing as our experiences couldn’t be any different. If you don’t mind humoring me for a moment, can you tell me:

  1. What rank you are?
  2. What the average rank of your guild statues is (if you’re in a guild)?
  3. What (Bombot) team you are using?
  4. How many cities you have to 5 Stars or higher

For me, in case you’re interested, here are my answers:

  1. 822
  2. 97
  3. Custom Team - Teams - Gems of War Database
  4. All but 2
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It also gives up on heavily-homogenized boards.

SPECULATION WARNING:

I suspect this is because the game uses Flash and Flash also has a hard-limit of 256 levels of recursion. This can be bypassed by with a stack but I am speculating that the coders didn’t really see the need to plan every contingency in a rarely-used mechanic.

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Lyya,

I’m old enough that I used to play Spider Solitaire on the old Windows back in the early 90s. Microsoft was nice enough to even tell you which of the 32k hands you were dealt because there was a pool of 32k games. The weird thing is that even after playing the game obsessively during my college days, I never thought ‘Oh, I played this hand before’. A sufficiently large starting pool of pre-vetted starting boards is just as viable as your suggestion. Either way, mathematically, there is a limited number of board combos that don’t lead to instant 3+ matches being made to start. That number is so large to make it feel randomly generated.

Sirrian is right, I only grudgingly play PVP because it’s the ONLY way to get any sort of worthwhile reward. However, PVP is not what keeps me coming back to this game. It’s the RPG aspects and the events and new troops. Every time I think I’m ready to quit because the “Randomness” butt hurts me, I end up coming back the next week to check what troops have been added. Right now, I feel like I’m 1 more bad week of horrible RNG-performance from quitting the game entirely.

I’m at a point in life where this is the last video game I’m playing. If I give it up I no longer have a reason to turn on my computer or phone since I live in a place with limited connectivity and no cell service. (My phone became an expensive game console when I moved here)

FYI, many of those boards are mathematically impossible to solve. Many of them don’t have a single possible move. They weren’t pre-vetted, the random number generator was seeded with a number between 1 and 32,768 because that’s a 2-byte signed short data type.

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That says something about match-3 games, IMO. :flushed:

Well it makes an excellent multi-faceted tutorial. You learn about arrays (the board), sprite sheets (the gems), generating random numbers (gem creation), user input (swipe), animation (new gems falling), etc…

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