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Guilds are allowed to rotate members in certain events to boost scores

Platform, device version and operating system:
Xbox

Screenshot or image:
If I took a screen shot, it would reveal the names of the cheater(s). :face_with_monocle:

What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened:
This works on all non-GW guild leader board competitions.
Certain low ‘classed’ guilds have been exploiting a bug that allows them to cheat up the leader board by rotating fake players in. The fake player (or cheat accomplish) joins the guild temporarily, adds a few points to the guild. Then when the cheat player quits**, instead of the guild points leaving they stay**! Then a new fake cheat player joins and they continue to go up the leader board without spending gems.

How often does this happen? When did it begin happening?
It’s probably happened since mode was introduced, but what may have become a few roster changes near new week has resorted into a cheat rotation to pump up score.

Steps to make it happen again
Play a guild game like tower of doom, defeat dooms until you run out of seals.
Rotate some fake players in with fresh amount of seals, their dooms add to the guild total.
Bring your real players back in, congrats! You scored high on the leader board.

As for punishing the cheaters, I think the majority of the punishment should be towards the guild master because not all of their players may have been involved in cheating. Or ban the guilds from roster changes for three months. Nothing too severe.

4 Likes

This is an Exploit not a bug. It was also pointed out to at least one dev when Tower of Doom was first implemented. So they are very much aware of how this could happen. My solution was to lock the roster like they do for GW. Folks can leave or join the guild during the week but only the 30 that were there at weekly reset could participate in that guilds ToD. I guess it wasn’t worth the time to code it that way. :man_shrugging:

6 Likes

3 months with no roster changes isn’t severe? I guess it’s not a perma ban.

My guild did 200 fewer Dooms this month compared to last month because of the delve. Perhaps this other guild put more emphasis on Dooms.

The devs would be better equipped to monitor cheating. I think locking rosters as they do during GW is appropriate.

I am curious as to see your evidence though. Perhaps you have alt spies in the alleged cheater guilds?

We wacthed their guild drop to 29, then 30 players, scored some more dooms. Then drop to 29 then 30 players again, several times. It’s pretty obvious.

3 Likes

yeah, these guild events are becoming a circus. As if dealing with Mixer cheaters was not enough:

  • Braindead (streaming his GW battle on Mixer): “I have a 5 gems combo on top left of the board, should I play it?”
  • Wiseman (watching the stream to play in place of the braindead): “hmmm…let me think…yeah, play it!”
  • Braindead: “ok, I play the 5 gems combo”
  • Wiseman: “well done! Good job!”

now we have the joy to witness the “rotation maestros” in Tower of Doom. :roll_eyes:

Note to the devs: As you said you dont approve the use of Mixer but can’t do anything against it because its a Microsoft thing, maybe at least you could do a simple check on your logs to easily see which guild(s) is/are going from 30 members to 29 to 30 to 29 and 30 again on Sunday to pump its score?

8 Likes

This is clearly a feature request NOT a bug report. we all know this is working as intended. please dont bog down our already over burdened bug fixers. there are actual bugs that need fixing.

what is a “fake player”? … :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
you know that only 30 players get the final rewards right?
you know that the time that anyone puts into ToD LB rewards is a net loss right?

regardless of this “issue”, guilds need to be able to rotate/replace players mid week and have them participate in the current event. GWs is annoying enough as a 1 week lock down on guild rosters.

4 Likes

Tower of Doom won’t exist as a weekly event after the next 5 rotations.

The devs have never cared to change things during the previous 19.

Can’t see this ever changing even when it becomes a weekend event.

Tod rewards are not large enough for the amount of energy to even worry about.
We took 1st on xbox 3 months in a row with higher scores than the guild mentioned without rotating. We just had half the guild go to floor 100.
Decided to not waste the time or gems this month.

2 Likes

Seems odd to argue that a guild cannot recruit during ToD week. And if they do, that player cannot contribute during that week.

2 Likes

Moving this thread to the feature request/feedback section - I have brought this up with the team, we’re unlikely to have a lengthy discussion about it this week due to public holidays but it’s on our radar.

Also regarding Mixer, I don’t believe we ever said we disapprove of it. It’s completely fine to use.

3 Likes

There you have it, Green Light to pump up your guild scores by rotating in members.

2 Likes

It’s interesting how this looks very different if you’re at the top and competition-oriented or in a more casual slot and play-oriented.

I totally see how competitive guilds can use this to get points for more than 30 players’ worth of free/cheap sigils. That’ll screw up the leaderboard competition for the legit players who do it the honest way by spending a lot of gems and/or money. It’s especially not fair that a guild who whales for a leaderboard position might have to compete with a guild that doesn’t.

But moving downwards, I’ve also seen good uses of this. Imagine you’re part of a large network of guilds with players of all skill levels. The more casual guilds might not have players who can get far enough or play hard enough to get to the later reward portals in events. The guilds in the middle have those players, but aren’t quite leaderboard material. So the guild could facilitate letting people “donate” their extra sigils to the other guilds and let the players in those guilds get more rewards. In this use case, nobody’s showing up on leaderboards so there’s no harm done.

So IMO the problem’s how we do the leaderboard, not that people can switch guilds and spend sigils. At the very high end, for the most part everyone’s getting the same points per unit time. The only way to get higher is to spend more resources on more Tier VIIs so you can get a marginally higher score per match, but that balances vs. the matches taking longer even with stat boosts. What I mean to say is, in short, I see these leaderboards as little more than assigning a score to sigils spent in a way that isn’t strongly related to skill. So it’s no surprise guilds found a way to spend more sigils: that’s the only thing you’re judged by!

So any “fix” that maintains current scoring hurts low-end players to make higher-end players feel better about a system that only rewards spending money. I don’t like that idea. We need to find a way to score GoW games so players who are skillful get more points than players who spent more gems. Fat chance, right?

And I agree with @UKresistance, if this isn’t seen as an exploit it’s better to find a way to use it in your guilds than try to get the people using it banned for cheating. The problem’s the scoring. Wanna get it fixed? Show the devs you can get the same score with thousands fewer gems than you used to. Maybe do a stunt LB run where “everyone in the guild” only bought Tier I. They’ll have a lengthy discussion and a patch released quicker than it takes to reply to a forum thread.

2 Likes
  1. Tower of Doom has very relaxed requirements to complete all stages. Its not hard to get all stages done with 3-5 days. Those 30 players have gotten their “final rewards”

  2. Guild Leaderboard is largely pointless outside of say the Top 5.

  3. On consoles, its not difficult to make extra accounts.
    On consoles, there’s quite a few people that maintain multiple accounts.

4a. If 3rd place and 2nd place were close in a margin of ~100 or so Dooms, some people may find incentive in helping the guild obtain 3,000 more gems (100 per player). The difference is even more between 1st and 2nd at 6,000 gems (200 per player).

4b. Semi-unrelated, but guild gifts were supposed to be gifts or incentives at 25 gems per gift. People will do much more for 100/200 gems.

5a. If an account is in a guild that is getting nearly nothing on the leaderboard, they have nothing to lose to contribute to one of the guilds fighting for the top spot.

5b. If said account belongs to an actual person (alternate account) in a guild fighting for one of the top spot, then there’s no downside to help oneself since that other account has already received the final rewards from the stage a long time ago in a decent guild.

5c. Some guilds have sister guilds where they promote players up or down depending on reasons.

6a. As long as people are back in their normal guilds before Monday reset, they’ll get their original leaderboard rewards. Guild hoppers for ToD have nothing to lose as long as they get their last stage rewards ahead of time (not difficult).

6b. Even if the guild hoppers don’t receive their leaderboard reward, do you think people would care that they lost out on 5 gems and 5 dooms or whatever minuscule reward it was?

  1. The process is often done on Sunday because there are no more new free sigils coming in. A fresh account with no tiers purchased still gets 28 free sigils. Add haste and valravens and the value gets stretched out a lot.

  2. Considering how crazy scoring can get on player leaderboards during other events, its not out of the ordinary for this kind of desire to win/prosper to occur in guild events.

At this point, I’m not accusing anyone. But, there’s definitely a big loophole available that’s completely left open to be abused. The devs “should” care here, because guilds can be profiting without actually spending more gems to obtain those rewards.

5 Likes

Pretty sure this is called a False Syllogism. There couldn’t possibly be any other reason that guilds might want to update their roster at the end of a week in prep for a weekly reset. Literally can’t think of any other reason. Also, no players would ever have sigils remaining for an event come Sunday evening. That doesn’t happen.

I will quote your own words from the thread “Mixer and controller sharing” in the “Guild wars” category: (thread of August 2019, the message I use to quote you is the last one, the 35th)

Kafka: Its not a lack of integrity, let me put it this way, our 3rd party provider made this service (Mixer), they allow us to have our game on their console, then they make a tool for all their players - ITS A REAL GREY AREA HERE HENCE WE DONT ENCOURAGE THE USE OF MIXER TO GAIN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE, but its something Microsoft themselves made.

another quote from you taken from this same message #35: “… we dont encourage players to hot seat their accounts…”

So to then say “its completely fine to use” is funny to say the least.

OF COURSE IT IS NOT COMPLETELY FINE TO HAVE LETS SAY THE 5 BEST GUILD WAR PLAYERS PLAY ALL THE MOVES OF EVERY BATTLES OF THE 5 WEAKEST PLAYERS OF THEIR GUILD USING MIXER like it happened on last GW on Xbox! Anyone thinking that this is fine need to stop everything and take some rest…
But again, we all know that IP2 can’t do anything against Mixer so this mind change is perfectly understandable.

@Kafka

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Don’t kid us that you dont have your own ways of “doing things”. Some of your players ain’t all that but suddenly become superpowers in your guild.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to get Chunky’s Looters and Chunky’s Pillagers up and running, just so da Raiders can get a few hundred more gems.

Still, it is a thought…if I make two alts, and they make two alts, and so on, and so on.

Teamwork makes the scheme work. For the Horde. :axe::rage::shield:

Alts make nothing work.

1 Like

The only thing we do is to discuss general strategy and which troops to use with more struggling members BEFORE they play their battle. We NEVER used Mixer.
Discussing strategy and various troops option before battle is coaching.
Playing all the move with Mixer by a strong GW player in place of a weak GW player is cheating.
That cant be more simple and easy to understand.

But about “doing things” to become good at GW, I can give an exemple that happened around one and a half month ago (without calling out anyone of course…Im sure he will recognize himself while reading that and anyone playing Gems on Xbox since long enough will perfectly know who I am aiming): Joining a guild to steal teams from the best and then using them with also adding a massive use of Mixer to be sure all the weakest GW players dont play a move is something I have personally witnessed.
What some people would do to be first on certain leaderboard in this game is crazy. Im worried for their mental health… :rofl:

You have a high opinion of yourself :grinning: