HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH!
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I don’t want to get into the middle of the @yonizaf / @ogunther debate, as nothing good can come of that anymore. However, I would like to offer a counter-point to this statement of @yonizaf that I quoted, partly for him but mostly for the benefit of the “silent readers”, before this thread gets locked.
I agree that there is reason for people to have legitimate concerns about posting, and the type of response they might receive. However, this thread also shows that while their might be some “danger” there is also “protection”. To many (myself included) there is only one possible correct view of this situation, and yet there are quite a number of posts on the other side (some “devils advocate” and some as legitimate support). Also, while some posters might get a little carried away with their statements, others are very careful to keep things civil and impersonal despite having strong opinions (hopefully this is where I fall). And finally, many members of the community jump into these threads in defense of those “on the wrong side” of a topic, like you are here. And to be clear, I don’t mean “wrong” in the ultimate sense, only in the thread’s slant (for example, I’ve been on the wrong side of a few topics, even though I’m always right ).
So hopefully those who choose to remain silent out of fear and are reading this realize that it is still worth posting. And if they do so respectfully, many here will do their best to make things bearable for them (I will, even if I disagree). But quite frankly if they decide not to make their opinion known, then their opinion won’'t really count. So I look forward to reading their posts and disagreeing with them in the future. 
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I agree but then why would i want to advance brackets? We were in 9th bracket first week then 7th last week and now 6th… That would be counterproductive if first place per bracket was rewarded… Not saying i would advocate such behavior but some would for sure
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One person more than half. The other half of voters seems to agree that GW defense teams could use some limitations (and a half of those also thinks that limit should apply to normal ranked PvP battles).
The community seems pretty torn on this matter.
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I have to say, I agree with yonizaf on this one. I’ve felt shouted down before for having a contrary opinion and it’s often felt like ogunther is the leader of the pack. People then dogpile on and squash whatever the opposing opinion is. I think the attempts in this very thread to “shut down” arguments is a pretty good example. I’ve certainly felt compelled not to speak up for fear of the pack, then I realize it’s a forum for an obscure game and go for it. I’m sure others do not.
I do worry though about the forum players being unrepresentative of the general population. Only the dev team knows how the playerbase as a whole is responding. This could be the vocal minority and while, sure, they need to listen some, it’s very possible what’s best for the game as a whole is not best for many folks here.
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which then followed by:
So you still want it to be illegal, which means your final feedback (that the devs will consider) is still the streamline view in this thread. So much for opposing opinions…
I’ll be saying it now, and let’s see if you are right and different opinions can be presented here:
- I think alliances should be allowed, it makes perfect sense to me (the reason of which I will partially explain below). If the devs said it’s forbidden, I would think they are making a mistake (though I would still have to obey because it’s their game).
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I think DonBoba was perfectly right to offer an alliance, and that Black Dragon had the right to accept.
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Even when BD refused, I think it was wrong of them to make a big deal of it, start a thread against it and attack everyone they imagined was doing it or anyone who disagrees with their ‘ethics’. Same applies to everyone else who joined in and acted the same. In my mind, what you did was worse than what any cheater have ever done. Sorry, had to say it.
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Though Eika and Asha had every right to quit the game if they don’t like it anymore, I think the way they stormed out while making a bunch of people feel guilty, is wrong. Instead they should have quit more quietly, possibly open a new thread saying “I don’t like the game anymore, good bye” as others have done.
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When Don posted and others started bashing him, I don’t think he should have apologized again and again (regardless if he actually changed his mind). Instead, he should have held his head up high, as he didn’t do anything to be ashamed of, and despite knowing he may receive a negative reaction, he still went and confessed on the not-really-bad thing that he didn’t actually do. That was brave of him, and the rest should simply applaud his bravery, not attack or protect him.
As for “robbing other people of their reward”:
Are you kidding me? Guild Wars is all about robbing other people of their reward.
- When I’m carefully building colored teams instead of just using my PvP and losing the color bonus, am I robbing people of their reward?
- When I test my colored team time and time again before carefully proceeding instead of just charging in with it and losing, am I robbing people of their reward?
- When I help a guildmate build an invade or defense team that he could win with, when he could have lost if he tried on his own, am I robbing people of their reward?
- When I help someone from another guild to build an invade or defense team, am I robbing people of their reward?
- When I and my guild use an external tool (e.g Discord) to help us discuss and win eventually more points, while some other people don’t know of it or can’t use it, am I robbing people of their reward?
- When I post a good invade or defense team on the forums, that a lot of people from other guilds can use to improve their results, am I robbing people of their reward?
- When I use a team that I saw on e.g Tacet’s video to win effortlessly, while some other people struggle and waste hours to create a team on their own and still lose, am I robbing people of their reward?
- When I help someone from another guild to win by presenting them with an easier defense, am I robbing people of their reward?
The answer to all of these is an obvious, sounding yes.
Guild Wars is all about getting to first place by any means necessary (as long that they are not officially illegal). That includes using tools that others don’t have, such as a mythic they were unable to get, a chat tool that they don’t use, info sources that they are unaware of, or an alliance that they did not form. Anyone who seeks to disallow one of these but allow the others, should realize this is no more than their opinion and present it as such, not as if they are obviously correct and anyone who disagree is “just low” (or any other degrading statements).
And speaking of which, surely (according to the views some of you presented) Tacet is probably the baddest, most terrible cheater and robber out there, as the data in his videos helped a lot of players, skewing the GW results more than any other player could have done (alliance or not), and probably robbing thousands of people of their ‘rightful’ rewards.
and now, I’m truly out.
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How am I the “leader of the pack” when I didn’t even comment on the Don situation until almost 200 posts after he mentioned it, nor did I jump on that bandwagon. Somethings not adding up here. Just because I’m one of the more vocal members of the community and stand up for what I believe doesn’t automatically equate to me being some harasser just because you disagree with me.
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“Not against the rules” is not the same as “not wrong”. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
That’s like saying that Barry Bonds didn’t cheat just because steroids in baseball weren’t illegal yet.
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You shouldn’t make comments on situations that you know nothing about. Eika and I didn’t tell our guild about the offer. The first any of them saw about it was in this thread. Madking’s thread was started all on his own because of general rumors about people “actually” colluding last week.
Secondly, I didn’t "try’ to make anyone feel bad. I didn’t mention or even hint that Don was involved. He outed himself.
Also, you don’t get to tell me or anyone else what they can or can not say on this forum. I really have no idea who you think you are. But, I have been a part of this community for a long time. So, if I want to vent my hurt, anger or whatever for a game I loved and put a huge amount of energy into, I have the right to do so.
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When designing a reward structure based on brackets then the first rule is that the last place of Bracket 1 is equitable to first place of Bracket 2, and so on and so forth all the way down. In this way a Guild that wins a bracket and moves up knows that they are guaranteed AT LEAST the same rewards of the previous week. Generally speaking, this will require I more metered dispersion of rewards and not the extremely top heavy distribution we have at the moment.
Outside of Bracket 1, there is very little stress…
Bracket 2, first place gets a little better reward, places 2-10 get the same.
Bracket 3 and below and all places 1-10 receive the same reward.
There is literally no reason outside of Bracket 1 to even try, other than enough to maintain your placement in the Bracket. Now, that being said, while inside Bracket 1, EVERY place matters and that is where things become super competitive.
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The idea that this board suffers from group think and doesn’t allow dissenting opinions is completely and blatantly false.
There’s a half dozen different viewpoints expressed in this thread alone.
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Calling @Saltypatra to lock up, as nothing productive can come out any further.
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When their viewpoint isn’t the dominant one, then it’s group think and doesn’t allow their opinion. shrug
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NOT TRUE!!!
Everybody can take a break from this and enjoy some light reading! 
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Even if what you say is true, that is just a minor detail that does not change my point. In my opinion, the way you and your guildmates behaved in this thread was very wrong, possibly unforgivable. Surely more so than someone ‘cheating’ in a way that is not really illegal, but you personally happen to think as immoral.
Oh, really? Why do I not get to do to you the exact same thing you did to others and are doing to me now?
I did not, at any point, tell you you can’t do or say something. However, I have full right to think what you do and say is wrong, and I have full right to say what I think, just like you do.
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How my guildmates behaved? Immoral?? lol
Now, I’m completely convinced that you either haven’t read most of this thread or that you are being willfully disingenuous. There is nothing immoral about a single post I made. And yes, to those people that did or will collude in GW, I think their behavior is unethical and apparently, the devs don’t look on if favorably either. If that stings for some reason, so be it.
Nah. No one told anyone else what they could or could not write in this thread or the forum. The only person that did so was you.
By the way, needing your or anyone elses forgiveness is the most laughable thing you have ever posted.
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I have no issues with voicing strongly held opinions and generally believe that’s best for everyone. However, from what I’ve observed, you have a tendency to demand to be heard, and a few like-minded buddies (guildmates?) are always there to back you up. This then spills over into other threads, into multiple new threads, etc., and you dominant the forums until you get your way or exhaust any dissenting voices. It often feels like it’s hard to have a conversation about anything other than agreeing with you whenever you get on a tear about something. That, I think is bad for the community.
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What the heck are you talking about? Please feel free to give specific answers as that is so far removed from reality as to be laughable.
You can be self-reflective. I encourage you to do so. I think basically anything related to Guild Wars will suffice.
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@Delinquent i have not always agreed with you in the past but i do not dislike you. With that in mind i would like to say that calling @ogunther the pack leader that everyone piles on with is not accurate. How can he be a pack leader when he is a tree? Trees dont move therefore cant lead anything…
@efh313 i agree and i apologize for not being clear with my statement so let me clarify: wirh the reward system in place now there is no motivation to move up in brackets… i.e. the rewards GotO received week 1 were the same as we received week 2 and will be the same this week regardless of where we finish.
With little hope of being able to compete for top bracket the only motivation to advance is pride in my guild.
As to the rest i believe i have spoken my mind… I like many of the opposing ppl in this discussion and am very neutral on the topic in general. The person i most agree with is probably @Annaerith so take that fwiw…
And now i unfortunately also support the locking of this thread @Saltypatra
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