Punishing people for doing lower level delves seems unfair. I guess others feel if they do hard, they should get better rewards, vs someone that prefers not doing hard… It just feels like punishment, since everyone has to use the same resources and luck factors to get quality levels on a Hoard.
Love this idea!
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You would be receiving x0.5 loot for each delve level you go below until you reach the desired level you want to play. At this level you would be playing at x1.0 loot.
A picture to help you understand:
You reached level 60 in this example, and if decide to go back, you’ll be playing each level at x0.5 loot until you reach and play at level 20 at least once. After that, you can play just as normal at x1.0 loot.
Otherwise the devs would need to remove the boost of x2.0 loot for higher levels if they would allow us to select any level we want, and the only reward for playing at harder levels would be increasing the Renown.
Edit: This is obvious, but i’ll register here anyway, after you go down any level you shouldn’t receive the x2.0 loot bonus again for a level you already completed. Otherwise a player could alternate playing in a lower level and then next level “jump” to gain a total of x1.25 loot in those battles. (0.5+2.0 divided by 2).
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I think that still punishes casual players, and people that don’t have the troops to advance very far. (I think x1.0 is reasonable, but x.05 feels punishing).
In a sense it must have some disadvantage, and right now the bigger punishment is how long it takes to finish each battle EVERYDAY in a high level Delve…
While it may look punitive it balances out things and teachs players to plan ahead what they want and how to manage it:
“Should i work my way to level 20 for the next seven days or would it be better to go down until level 40 which i can manage just fine and do not lose too much bonuses for each day?”
“Maybe i could wait for a while and try to get more treasures in the next event…”
“I guess i’ll look out for some help on the forums before i decide this, and it will a good opportunity to ask the developers why they make such horrible troops for Wild Plains.”
I don’t see how greater time Investment=more rewards is unfair in any conceivable way.
If someone is as you say casual and plays less and/or on lower delves he is still getting fine rewards, just less than someone who invests more time and challenges themselves, sounds perfectly fine to me.
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I thought that was already in place?
Isn’t that what the x2 Multiplier is vs. x1? Or do you feel that’s not enough of a reward multiplier for the advancer?
Ah ok I understand now. I still see this as an unnecessary punishment. I feel that you could get a x2.0 once for each new level you reach and it just be treated as a bonus for progression, and I don’t see why we should feel the need to balance against people who opted to try progression.
Also as far as choosing levels, my suggestion is that you be able to choose which level you want to do. Be it by typing it in, a dropdown menu, or however you like. In other words if you reached level 70, you can choose to do level 30 for your next run (without having to do 60, 50, and 40 in between). You could then try to go for 80 (but not 100 unless you did 80 and 90 first) and anytime you push to a new highest level you run at the x2.0 bonus (but only once for each level).
Yes, your suggestion would surely be better. But as the current design is intended, which means the devs are 100% fine with it, if we only present the best option for us players they could feel less inclined to make a change, but having also second best option could have some better chances to be considered… Otherwise we are stuck with no options to go back.
Two things, two different topics:
The way Delve is set up I am completely on board with “higher levels get a better starting multiplier than 1x”.
I think it is wrong that a person who can complete a level 500 Delve gets the same reward at that level as I do for moving from 30-40. So long as we’re talking players at my level, those are not equivalent efforts. Even if it’s something minor like “level 300+ gets 2x for +0 and 3x for +10” makes it sensible.
I also think it’s wrong that players are encouraged to push on via a 2x multiplier before they might’ve become aware of all of the mechanics. Here’s how I feel like the userbase breaks down:
- 97% of players don’t interact with any community at all.
- 2% of players only interact with global chat.
- 0.8% of players come to the forums.
- 0.2% of players go to reddit.
I’ve already seen one reddit post from a user who is stuck at level 40, and thinks Delves are terrible because they are too hard. I can take, from his post, that he isn’t aware of how early in middle-game he is. He’s probably beating pet rescues and dungeons just fine, and doing the best in his inactive guild for raids/invasions. So it’s a shock to him that before he’s even hit 10% of the content in a new mode, he’s completely unable to proceed.
Now, most of us here would have a chuckle: level 40 isn’t tough to pass in any of the factions. If you have the right troops. We only know this because we talk to each other a lot, and if someone tells us something’s easy we say “prove it” and generally find out how they did it. This guy is so isolated from the community he thought he was a big fish.
There are a ton of users like this. They only register for the forums/reddit when something happens that makes them really upset and they need to vent. So it’s exceptionally important that the game communicates a lot about its mechanics, because none of these people even know the guide on Zendesk exists.
I feel like this is a situation where the devs make their life harder. They seem to assume every player reads the forums daily and watches every stream. They don’t make many efforts to spread that information via the game, which is how 100% of their customers interact. Even making a small move like a permanent News item that says, “Hey, there are guides to Delve at this site!” would be a good move.
That said, I think even with impeccable tutorial content:
- 90% of players would ignore it and assume they can figure it out as they go along.
- 10% of those are right.
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If we were to go by a amount of time spent=quantifiable amount of rewards gained ratio, it it is not enough by far. Someone at delve500 needing easily 10x or more the time to clear the full delve as someone at delve20 receiving not even twice the rewards we are far off in that department.
But that is not even what i am aiming for, i’d just not want this to be skewed even more.
Yes, your option isn’t bad and is certainly better than what we have right now.
Obviously I am not a dev so I don’t know what they are thinking, but my gut feeling is that they did not expect people to remain at 20 and they intended people would try to progress, and this is one of those ‘Players find an unexpected loophole’ scenarios that may get them to change how this works.
I think they knew that some people would farm low levels. That’s why they added decreasing multipliers for people that don’t move forward. They also made sure that the person that stays at a low level won’t progress because you get 0 renown points for repeated attempts at a previous level. A player will have to progress eventually if they want milestone rewards, exclusive pets, global stat bonuses, achievements, etc.
Frankly, it took more programming effort to allow people to play old levels than it did to just force the person to always go forward.
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Oh, also keep in mind when calling for significantly higher rewards for a delve 500: it is a multivariate function.
Presumably we all want to get a level 1,000 hoard. That’s going to make beating level 500 a lot easier. That might make getting more rewards too fast. So it almost needs to be a function where the ratio of your delve level to your hoard level dictates the reward. The thing we won’t like about that: it means there’s some sweet spot where you should never level the hoard. Sigh.
My feeling is we’re going to feel flush with ingots way before we’re actually maxing our hoards, and by then we’ll just complain that ingots and shards aren’t good enough.
My theory is when delves start to become so hard people can’t even get to bosses, and end up with lv 2 chests all the time… They will rage. The stat increases are going to take a long, long time per faction. So the idea of rushing progression seems crazy to me. Staying at a comfortable difficulty until you get bonus stats, seems logical… I don’t know what we are suppose to do… or what we were expected to do. It’s baffling to think anyone would even want to do lv 500 delves without the stat increases in place first. And I’m guessing once you get to lv 500, your multiplier stays at x1, since you are then repeating a delve level over and over.
Yes it seems crazy cause it gets rewarded so terribly, which is exactely the point. And not only that but after having put in all that extra effort and time compared to a player staying low, when you hit your wall and are stuck there and can’t advance further(nor go back to lower levels) you literally don’t get anything more than someone chilling at lv20 finishing his battles in 1/10 of the time you need.
As for the renown system, the rewards are laughable not worth it at all.
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The stat gains per faction are there to make progression easier. But the further you go, the harder things get, but if you rush progression you don’t yet have the faction points in place to get the stat bonuses to help you progress.
I don’t know about rewards being good at low levels vs high levels. What Sam gets shouldn’t bother Bob, unless what Sam gets is in some way cheating Bob…
If you rush progression without the bonus stats in place, then you are handicapping yourself, as far as I see it.
As I said, I don’t know what to do, or what I am expected to do, when it comes to advancing in delves.
The hoard bonus stats don’t do all too much for the speed of your progression which btw is another flaw of this system. They only make you more survivable.
A player with maximum hoardlevel at let’s say delve 300 will still take multiple times longer to clear a delve than a player with 0 hoard level sticking to delve<100.
So you favor handicapping rewards? Or forcing progression to get any rewards?
It seems the point is some feel anyone not progressing in delves should have their rewards severely penalized, and everyone advancing should have their rewards increased exponentially…
First off, a 0.5 reduction in the overall loot multiplier is hardly a severe penalty, depending on what your final multiplier on a delve run turns out it might even not matter at all, but i guess we want to be overly dramatic now.
I don’t know why it is so hard for you to understand that a higher amount of time and effort invested should also result in more rewards … at least somewhat in relation to the extra amount of time spent, which we are already far far away from.
Someone chilling at low levels gets xx times more rewards/time than someone pushing progression, that is a far more “casual”-friendly approach than i have ever seen in an mmo rewardsystem.
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