Dawnbringer unbalances Arena


#525

The problem here is that Arena is a peculiar environment. While in PVP teams that face a DB defense are equipped to do so, in Arena they are not.
Arena has been made more difficult by DB, it’s not that suddenly people find Arena too hard in general.
There’s also the collateral problem that you can lose all the PVP match you want but when you win you win. Losing a match in Arena hinders the whole run. A run in Arena is 8/9 rather slow matches so if nothing else you’re investing time in it, and if you lose two matches you lose all the seals.


#526

Maybe the solution isn’t “take Dawnbringer out of Arena”.

Maybe the solution is “your PvP points go back to 0 after two losses”.

Then it’d be a more even playing field.


#527

If I thought that were true I’d want to see DB removed as well.

Please refer to the spreadsheet image I posted yesterday-- I’m saying that if I can win 7 out of 8, most other players can as well. But to win, you have to first believe you can win. All the defeatist stuff posted about DB makes people more likely to just give up (consciously or unconsciously) when they see DB in the defense lineup.

Again, the spreadsheet image I posted. I did 20 Arena runs and won 18. That seems like an acceptable success ratio!

? Not so. You get proportionally fewer seals depending on how many individual matches you won, but you do get them. 6-2 and 7-2 “defeats” actually pay off a reasonable amount.


#528

LOL, works for me! PVP points are an area of the game I completely ignore, since no matter how much or little I play PVP in a given week, I always end up ranked somewhere around #30,000 :rofl:


#529

…I believe that DB can wipe my team off. Which it does. Also not all Arena team are equal but all Arena teams are not choosen by me.
Also you abort 20% of your runs before they even start, so I don’t know who is the defeatist here.

I’m talking about seals, You don’t get the premium 30 seals for a perfect run.


#530

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it isn’t about whether DB is beatable. I’ve beaten it before. It’s more that when I draft, my decisions have to be made with DB front and center. And then even when I do so, I still have to play DB 30% of the time(according to this thread). It’s not that it can’t be beaten, it’s that a whole format is centered around a single weapon, and that’s just not fun for me.


#531

So in a nutshell, Arena is broke. What else is new? Devs don’t give a damn about it to this day.


#532

They matter to a lot of people, and ranking up to 1 grants a ton of rewards.

I’d argue in the current meta it’s almost impossible to make it to Rank 1 without 2 losses unless you very carefully pick 1-trophy matches. That makes it nice and grindy.


#533

Not impossible. I usually manage it, and against mostly three-trophy opponents. My closest win this week was against Sirrian, actually (two trophies). If one of his troops had cast its spell instead of taking a skull match I probably would have lost.


#534

Nonsense. I got to rank 1 this week purposely looking for Psion and friends playing 95%+ 3T battles. My single loss was when I accidently started a 3T PvP battle with a triple Daily Task Team. (Mono Red Constructs). Currently 53-1 (played a bit more to finish the Event Stones)


#535

You know, this strangely mirrors the Arena conversation.

“It’s almost impossible to do <thing that requires a lot of skill and endgame tools.>”

Endgame players: “No it isn’t I do it all the time!”


#536

They don’t apply in arena.

I totally disagree.
Of course DB can be beaten with a judicious choice of weapon and of troops… and a little luck. I have always said so.

But can you name a single other weapon or troop that can one shot 2-3 in a single cast in arena?
DB is far much more powerful than all the other weapons. It is obvious that it is OP.
DB is a mythic weapon. It is in arena because it has been coded as legendary, but it is not legendary obviously and it has nothing to do in arena.
Arena is supposed to be a fair ground where everyone is at the same level. With DB it is not the case at all.

Arena used to be a challenge before DB. It was a way to learn to use some troops that we wouldn’t think of using spontaneously. And it was interesting to find some strategies to defeat a team with what random troops we had been given.
There is only one possible strategy against DB. Get rid of it before it kills all your team. It is always the same. There is absolutely no interest and no challenge there. It is just boring.


#537

Yes, another end-game player here, but I got to PVP 1 this week in 29 battles while completing my daily tasks with zero losses. My daily tasks were pretty PVP-friendly yesterday - 15 battles with at least 3 beasts and 15 battles with at least 3 monsters. I did a mixture of trophy levels but only because I was looking for whichever team had the most daemons. I think I’m 54-0 so far this week. For my money, there is no comparison between the PVP meta and Arena.


#538

Perhaps the developers need to look at ‘levels/tiers’ for Arena now that there are a larger number of troops available.

Tier 1: Troops Level 5 Common, plus 1 Rare), only C,R hero weapons.
Tier 2: Troops Level 10 C,R, plus 1 UR, only C,R, UR hero weapon.
Tier 3: Troops Level 15 C,R, UR, and 1 Epic. hero weapons C,R,UR,E.
Tier 4: Troops Level 20…


#539

I was mostly being snarky RE: the PvP rank thing.

In Arena, a single loss immediately costs you a guild seals bonus, and the second loss can cost you up to 90% of your rewards. You can’t see what’s coming, you can’t change your team, you have no way to react until it’s too late. The “8 wins” rewards are worth much more than what you get from playing any number of arena games, and if you don’t get at least 2 wins you lose resources.

That makes a single overpowered troop a heck of a lot more concerning than it is in PvP.


#540

Unless they’ve changed the rewards setup this is incorrect. You still get the Seals bonus for a “perfect run” even if you end up going 8-1.


#541

Agreed. I’ve gotten seals for 8-1 runs.


#542

If you don’t, then you get no seals for up to eight battles.


#543

Time to refresh this important forum thread. DB unbalances the arena as a defensive weapon so please keep adding your voice here; don’t stay silent.


#545

Yeah, it needs to stay an issue but the trouble is there’s not a lot new to say.

We know there are a lot of overhauls coming in 3.3, my fingers are crossed theres’ a hidden update to Arena that hasn’t been announced yet. The mind boggles that they can exclude DB from low-level players but it’s impossible to restrict it in other contexts.

From what I gather, the thing people beat them up the most about is GW. That’s the thing they’re working on the most. Arena’s only relevant to the trophy charts, and the people who are hyper-competitive about that seem to be, in general, DB users, because that’s the fastest way to grind trophies. I’ve seen plenty of people say, “I don’t use my DB in arena, unless it’s week…” What they mean it, “I know it’s unfair, but sometimes my guild wants to farm trophies and I use it then.”

I don’t think those players are bad, but it’s a shame we have a mode where the competitive players literally make things worse for people trying to have fun.