Counters and released troops


#1

With the release of new troops it seems like there has been a call for nerfs to the meta, but doesn’t it seem like the meta is a little anti-climactic? Just for this meta, gob-chomper seems like a strong insta counter. Did the devs release these troops khorvash/manticore and the like under the assumption that we would use counter builds should we face them? There are a lot of counters but can we get more 40% chance to devour specific troop type please? I was hoping for a shredder-type to counter mecha.


#2

Until I got Gob chomper, i passed by the goblin teams. now i have two, and it’s SOO fun, even with only the first trait of doing double damage to gobs, it’s buhye Felicia!


#3

I rarely face Goblins any more. We do need a Monster-focused chomper thing though. That would be awesome.


#4

The problem is that the current meta (mainly manticore) does not actually have any inherent counters.

But yes that typically is the design plan, which seemed to fly right out the window for Manticore :stuck_out_tongue:

I personally don’t care for chance to devour skills since they rarely seem to proc and I like things that proc every battle.


#5

You can still just take mana on a troop you don’t mind having stunned and bait the Manticore away from your main things. All it does is slow down the start of a match a bit.

I still think that most of this outrage over Manticore is an overreaction


#6

Well, speaking for myself, I lose against manticore 50% of the time.

This is how my typical manticore match goes:

  1. I go after a color on a troop I don’t mind getting stunned and drained
  2. Manticore drains me
  3. I get mana that I don’t mind losing again
  4. Second manticore drains me
  5. I go after a troop whose mana I actually need.
  6. bone dragon takes two to three turns to get their mana while I still haven’t had a chance to get a single cast off. Most likely due to an unlucky board or lack of cascades or surges
  7. 40+ attack manticore rips through my first two guys.
  8. My last two troops struggle to get mana and beat out manticore
  9. Death by another bone dragon + manticore

It does not matter which team I use this always happens. If I use a faster team obviously I have a better shot at getting the ball rolling and then coming out on top, but luck never seems to run in my favor.

It’s the combination of two manticores plus bone dragon that makes manticore so broken.

If you did not have to worry about the stun and the drain and the empowered and the impervious/attack and the very cheap costs of their skills… then the game would be a lot less stressful. There isn’t a single counter other than “bait” or “mana block” and that never seems to freaking work for me.

Next to impossible when there seems to be so many green/yellow/purple/browns. Because bone dragon is also on the OP side…

I’m all for a legitimate counter to Manticore anytime they are ready to release one.


#7

I think you should be using gob-chomper to deal massive to lethal damage to manticore instead of focusing gob’s devour ability.Gob-chomper vs manticore. However i do see that the 28 damage gob can do without magic bonuses is not enough to one shot manticore, but i have yet to see one that has that much health. [quote=“Kurokazna, post:5, topic:14984”]
I still think that most of this outrage over Manticore is an overreaction
[/quote]

It is like the reaction to goblin. 6 mana deals a lot of damage and gain an extra turn.


#8

If it takes you more than two or three turns to get a troop up, then I suggest either using Valk (also makes a good troop to have stunned) or something with a lower mana cost that can deal with Bone Dragon. Immediately springing to mind are Moloch or, well, Manticore if you want to drain it specifically. Spirit Fox also works. Or you could deny out its colors with the Valkyrie that I mentioned earlier.

As for 7, use a troop with stoneskin in the first slot. If you play correctly, it won’t get stunned. I personally use Khorvash, who, after Valkyrie gets up, completely denies out both Manticores at once while you sit on its cast and fill your back troops.


#9

Gob chomper will not be anymore effective than any of the troops I am using right now.

In particular, emperor K

My reasoning?

Gob will take two-three skills just to kill one manticore. For this example I’ll say 2 (even though there are teams that would need three I believe).One of those is empowered, but that would still be 3 casts worth of mana to get. That is 36 mana total.

Emperor k can kill BOTH manticores with 2-3 skill shots. I’ll again use two. That would be 28 mana.

If emperor is not fast enough to kill the manticores then gob will not be any faster.

Note: I have tried every single team people have suggested and it always always always is exactly the same. Stone skin in front. Valkyrie based. True damage. Skull damage. Tried it all. Still exactly the same problem. I am a very unlucky person. That is why I usually use teams with board control (explorers in particular). I use the exact same steps with every team that I try and sometimes I win and sometimes I lose but I always feel frustrated because (1) it isn’t fun and (2) it feels so cheap and unfair.


#10

Damaging one Manticore but not killing it is mostly useless when attempting to prevent the sequence of events @Mekkalyn is describing. Two Gob-Chompers vs. two Manticores will still result in one getting drained, so you can’t kill one with Empowered abilities. Even if you do get one down, there’s still one more, and you’ve also done nothing to slow down Deep Borer or Bone Dragon.

It’s a good thought, but I’m sorry to say your solution is not adequate. It might help for you to join the endgame, which may allow you to provide a more informed opinion about endgame issues.


#11

Lately I have actually been most successful against this team with:

Dragon banner
Mercy
Alchemist
Hellcat
Gard (no traits)

the way it usually plays out is that I can either fill both alchemist and hellcat on the first turn AFTER casting Gard, or I can set up a full mana converter with them taking skulls. I then win from there easily, since none of the manticores matter, both have been used and I still get a gard cast in between drains. The other way is to leave up mercy for them to drain while filling up either alchemist or hellcat.

GG.


#12

The counters that have been mentioned above are valid, but ENTRIEY miss the point. Its almost as if no one compares a particular troop to another in a min/max evaluation. We are not playing checkers, some troops are better than others, a few troops are worthless, and Empower Khorvach is superior to most in every way.

I’m not saying EK needs a Nerf sledgehammer, just some fine tuning to get it inline.

Part 1
EK Traits
Leader -Great Trait
Stoneskin -Great Trait
Lion’s Wrath -Great Trait

to be continued…


#13

What about an empowered troop with a one-shot spell that reads: “Drain all ally and enemy troops of mana.”

Empowered so you can use it turn 1 to ditch opposing empowered troops. One shot so you can’t get a chain cast situation (otherwise it would be king troll on defense). Give it a decent attack/life/armor stat to compensate for not having a spell for most of the match.


#14

They should buff the counters at that rate.


#15

Part 2 Ability
14 BL/BR Magic +3 True Damage (2) enemies AND Drain Mama AND Stun. The closest TD is probably Watcher 12 Pu/Br Magic +2 True Damage (1) enemy AND drain 1 plus damage to adjacent.

So far we would need 2 casts of Watcher at 24 Mana so far to emulate a part of EK. But we still need to stun both troops. Moa stuns at 7 mana but also inflicts damage, and you would need 2 casts. I suppose stun is worth around 2 manna per enemy?.

So you could take MANY Turns and spend nearly 30 manna OR you could take 1 turn and spend 14 mana to get about the same result.


#16

Didn’t @Velkyn already do this math? There’s a thread for this.

Edit: I had to dig a bit for this


#17

Nerved saw it, do you have the link?


#18

Suggestion:

Bone Dragon
Strip Flesh (14 Purple/Brown)
Destroy an enemy’s Armor, and create 8 Skulls boosted by [Magic] [2:1] . Gain [Magic] Armor. [3:1]

This would change the main problem of that dragon. Too much armor results in too much skulls.
You can still destroy the armor, create skulls (maybe get a match 3) and gain armor.


#19

I was summoned, do I need to do another troop analysis? << >>;;