I would say she has full use within a demon team. Pairs really well with Obsidius as a tank and Sorcerer class using Essence of Evil. If you put leprechaun into the mix, you have a full team to use 
Using Eric’s tier criteria, I think of Queen of Sin as a C, but I’m open to being persuaded otherwise. Bless is insanely strong, but the fact that it’s restricted to daemons hurts. Her damage by itself is pretty uninspiring, so what kind of daemon team can she support? If she enabled a endgame-strong team I could see her moving up, but I just haven’t seen it. (PS: I saw your suggested team Magius, but not sure that team is fast enough, especially with Obsidius blocking three colors).
I guess it’s consistent to have Stonehammer and CoG both in the same tier. But when I take a step back, I don’t see how we can give the Wild Queen props for consistent gem creation, while dismissing Stonehammer and CoG even though they have practically the same gem creation ability. I think all three provide value as supports for that ability alone, and CoG’s traits lend further support value, even if we agree that its armor gimmick doesn’t really work. (TWQ is clearly better than those two, but for other reasons.)
Its all about the secondary effect. Stonehammer and CoG also have been praised for their consistent gem creation, but that only takes it so far (to D).
The Wild Queen permanently debuffs your target, permanently buffs a troop that matters with its effect, and creates with her spell a self-fill to repeat the process and a win condition at the same time. The other 2 don’t do create a win condition.
A whiff of her spell “usually” causes less problems as the debuff can mitigate the skull damage being used against you. An AI wasting a turn to skull you with somewhere between 0 skull damage to minimal skull damage is effectively a positive gain. There are cases where merely casting her spell to shrink an enemy’s attack is enough, even if the gem creation misses.
For the other two, casting for a few loose matches or a complete miss is a pretty hefty negative loss as neither of their extra effects do enough to make up for a miscast.
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That’s an interesting angle. On miscast Stonehammer still has stunned the other team, but CoG is a sitting duck.
I don’t think we disagree on the strengths/weaknesses of CoG, but only on the relative placing of it. With those support abilities, it’s just hard for me to see it (or Stonehammer) on the same level as the likes of Tian Yi and Xathenos.
Stonehammer has to be in first spot.
Wild Queen works her magic from behind, and the permanent attack drain makes any first troop tough against skulls.
I updated my personal tierlist after messing around with mythics people were upset about and added Champion of the Gaard into the list.
Major changes are:
- Zuul up to A
- Obsidius up to high A
- Voice of Orpheus down to mid-B
- Queen of Sin down to high-C
- Pharos-Ra up to higher-C
- Wild Queen up to A
- Champion of the Gaard added to high-C
You can see my justifications for the changes here:
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Just saw the video and I almost wish I didn’t. If each of those mythics are placed relative to each other, that ends up spinning a lot of opinions that I honestly probably don’t care about long term but in the current heat of the moment will end up discussing.
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TPK is the best mythic? I get that its a strong 3rd trait, but that spell doesn’t carry the troop. Most of the other top mythics are self-sufficient in domination.
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Obsidius is at the bottom of that A list. Stun all is a great effect which is why I won’t fight it in the A category, but that damage is inconsistent and pound for pound less useful in combat than any of those S and A Mythics (except TPK and maybe Megavore). If they ever make that secondary damage trigger a 100% effect, then it can move back up again. (and they really should. Currently, its a bad version of a knockoff Infernus. At least let it have similar damage output please…)
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I’m not a fan of The Worldbreaker despite having used it in Guild Wars in the past. A 30 mana cost to explode 18 gems and do average AoE damage isn’t efficient. Without a storm and/or lucky gem matches, it tends to only get about half or less mana back on a cast. I’d honestly rather use a Harpy Mage, which requires a mere 4 mana to fill and explodes more than TWB, and feed Brown from its Dust storm to a Brown troop to do its devastation.
In your list, its still a B, but if it was my list, I’d shove down the last half of B into C and move most of C into a D list ranking. After that, I would make TWB the top of the new C list. There’s a clear difference of power level between Arachnaean Weaver and Jotnar Stormshield.
In terms of usefulness, I’d change the list from
TWB > Ubastet > Voice of Orpheus > Queen Aurora
to
Ubastet > Queen Aurora > (Skadi) > TWB > Voice of Orpheus
- The current C Rank is a mess.
C Tier rant
A) Champion of Gaard, the best of C Tier? … really?
B) Plague rated that high? really?
C) Skadi being lower than Champion of Gaard, Plague, Phoenicia and Queen of Sin. Why? … A perma blue storm is infinitely more useful than those 4 troops and being able to move troops is devastating to many teams. That’s already enough for me to rate it as a strong support troop. Adding in Mana Burn damage and the Arcane trait, Skadi’s damage output is fine and gets stronger as the match goes on.
If we’re factoring in Queen of Sin’s summons, then with Skadi, you KNOW you’re getting Queen Mab and she’s one of the most annoying troops to deal with once she starts getting a freeze in or two. That perma blue storm also helps to make sure Queen Mab sees action when summoned.
She’s a C Tier in some Tier List, but not with this C Tier structure.
Skadi is part of the strongest kingdom team currently (in my opinion).
Rank Recap
Ubastet > Queen Aurora > (Skadi) > TWB > Voice of Orpheus
There are many substitutes for Cleanse, but there’s only one permanent Blue Storm.
D) I could never value Champion of Anu less than Champion of Gaard. Silence, Stun, mana drain with potential AoE damage (that improves each turn) is infinitely more useful than whatever Gaard is doing.
E) Is it sad that (my) Orb of Winter can hit for 42-62 AoE damage in 7 mana (and self-enchants) before Phoenicia can hit 30/60 (on average) in 12 mana when paired with The Maraji Queen and some kind of Fire Storm?
F) I don’t like Scorpius, but its pretty easy to argue that its better than most of that C Tier list. If Phoenicia’s value is assumed on hitting its bonus damage, I can’t see why Scorpius doesn’t get the same treatment. It isn’t hard to find troops that do poison and with Curse, nothing can escape poison now for those that are truly determined.
Brown Gem spam is a common archetype, one which Scorpius can be a beneficiary to.
G) The punching bag, Xathenos, is made fun of for the appearance of being weak and an expensive Soul Forge cost. I still it want it buffed. I still want a better 3rd trait. Stats On Kill traits are some of the worst traits possible.
Its really not absolutely terrible though.
It steals life for itself. It steals magic (that scales as opponents get harder) which debuffs the opponent, and when it gets a kill, it can refill the board with Undead troops.
Everything you said about Pharos Ra in the video can be said about Xathenos, only replacing Purple with Brown. A Brown team like Mountain Crusher (Titan), Harpy Mage, Xathenos, The Possessed King/Queen Titania/Suna/Tinseltail etc. to just spam out damage can make it work.
Still needs a buff though as Tina-9000 is still way better, but its better than say what a Tian-Yi or Plague could do.
What that C tier list should be (in my opinion/each troop can be moved +/- a few spots)
Skadi (moved to B) >
Suna > Champion of Anu > Scorpius > Gaard’s Avatar (moved from F) > Pharos-Ra > Xathenos > Champion of Gaard > Stonehammer > Undine > Abynissia > Euryali > Phoenicia > Queen of Sin > War > Doomclaw > Wulfgarok > Tian Yi > Plague
Champion of Gaard is better than Stonehammer just slightly because of its 3rd trait, otherwise its about the same value.
Wulfgarok is a hard one to place, as it can be better than a lot of Mythics, but requires setup/luck to do its best.
Abynissia is not mana efficient, but at the end of the day, its still a Ragnagord Exploder that can still summon. 2 Life/Attack per turn to all Daemons also makes it hard for many AoE troops to race her.
- Something with a very easy to manipulate boost ratio like Gaard’s Avatar is not the worst Mythic in the game. Is it a win more troop? sure. Is it a build around me troop? sure. It’ll never be the best all arounder, but it sure can be good.
Shield of Urskaya - Titan, Harpy Mage, Gaard’s Avatar, The Possessed King
Tell me being able to hit for 90-100 AoE damage in current PvP end game with one Shield cast with a silence on all Daemons, burns all Undead, and a boost ratio that ignores Web deserves it to be anywhere near the worst Mythic in the game.
If you read through all of that then um… your list is good and keep up the good work!
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Your review of my tierlist is quite the rollercoaster of emotions 
The relative positions within each tier is indeed done with purpose.
TPK is the easiest top tier choice in the world. He is useful in every aspect of the game. PVP, Events, GW, Delves…he is amazing in all of them. Beyond that, he makes any lineup built around looping go from 0 to 60 instantly with any 4/5 matches.
AND if you’re ever in a bad spot, you can roll them dice on a transform to save it.
He’s my most used troop, looping is the most important aspect of any team, and he makes looping lineups escalate just so insanely that it’s impossible for me to move him anywhere but the tippy top.
…
I think at the end of the day, of course everyone’s tierlist is going to look different, but it’s the discussion around them that makes them worth making.
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Good posts guys. I’ll lead off with a few thoughts on Keylime’s new list:
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While I don’t have a problem with TPK in S-Tier, I think both Xolid and Idle made the fair point that TPK’s value drops immensely if it gets stunned (by the likes of Obsidius or Khorvash, for instance), much more so than any of the other top-tier Mythics.
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Zuul in A is surprising, given that its main use is delves, and Irongut is better at that niche (my understanding is that Zuul is too slow to rely on in pvp).
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I like TWQ and Yasmine’s Chosen a lot, but having them above Weaver and Ketras strikes me as a bit odd. You could argue them being better, but I can’t see them as a whole tier better. It’s also kinda weird to see Jotnar on the same tier as Weaver and Ketras. (Orpheus too for that matter, but that’s a bit more understandable than Jotnar.)
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I share Idle’s thoughts on Plague being in C-tier, it’s more in line with your F-tiers. Ditto for Phoenicia, Queen of Sin (though I’m open to persuasion on her), Tian Yi, War, Abynissia, and Xathenos.
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I also agree with Idle re: Skadi. It and Suna from C-tier stand out, in that they have the underrated advantage of needing no help from other troops to work as intended. Stick them in the back of your team, and as long as they aren’t mana blocked, they will do work for you. Two of the most underrated Mythics IMO.
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Finally, totally agree with Idle that Gard’s Avatar stands out like a sore thumb in F-tier. Can’t see it as lower than C in your list
@TheIdleOne, a few reactions to your comments too:
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I agree with your re-sorted B-tier, except for Ubastet. Why would you rate it above Aurora and Skadi? Ubastet has its spell gimmick…and that’s really it. It doesn’t self-boost, or bring much of anything else to a team. Divine-typing is probably the best other thing it has going for it, as it gets up and running a bit quicker than the other Mythics with a similar gimmick (Scorpius and Wulfgarok). What are some top-notch teams these days that include Ubastet?
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Also agree with CoA > CoG, though I could see them in the same tier.
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Mostly agree with the C-tier rewrite, though I think Doomclaw and Wulfgarok are a bit better than where you have them.
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Never underestimate a free instakill option. You know that 1000 hp Harpy in a Delve Level 500 for Stonesong Eyrie? That HP doesn’t matter if Ubastet just happens to kill a different enemy in the process.
You want to know why I really think Queen Aurora needs a self-effect? Because I’ve had a time where I gave a whole bunch of life and barrier to the rest of my team, but I still lost one of those buffed up troops with Barrier on it because Ubastet killed Queen Aurora which I couldnt protect.
Ubastet actually does self-boost from its 3rd trait, but a match shouldn’t last that long for it to matter.
The biggest part that keeps it relevant is that its spell is boosted by all ally and enemy Attack. Even if the enemy gets stronger, Ubastet stays consistent in useful damage output.
Here’s what my Ubastet says in PvP. Deal 23 damage + 51 boosted damage (for 74 damage) to the 2 weakest enemies and if one dies, get more free damage and kill the other target.
148 damage on one cast, even if it doesn’t kill is still super strong.
Its also a brown troop, so its never really hard to fill. Just because the Divine team isn’t the top meta team doesn’t mean it isn’t functional anymore.
The nice thing about top-notch teams is they’re not top until they’re noticed. And sometimes, not every team gets noticed despite being good.
Ubastet vs Queen Aurora: QA has a distinct weakness and Ubastet directly exploits that. QA can also backfire on cast, where as Ubastet is user friendly.
Ubastet vs Skadi: Ubastet scales better with its spell effect. I like Skadi more than Ubastet, but Ubastet is more effective in offense oriented teams. In a direct comparison, it wouldnt be too hard for Ubastet to land a skull or two on a summoned Queen Mab and then use its spell to kill Queen Mab and get a free kill on Skadi.
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Currently, my Doomclaw caps out 72 damage after 4 enraged allies (which takes quite a good amount of 4/5 matches as it can enrage an ally that’s already enraged), 72 damage for 24 mana isn’t a great rate for that much setup. 2 random chances for devour is good, but feels bad if it doesn’t get one and I find I don’t get enough devours to feel good about it.
Its damage also relies on your allies being alive, so when you start losing the match, it becomes way less effective.
Inconsistent damage, inconsistent devour, and an inconsistent 3rd trait (I’d only want Enrage on my 1st ally, and the hero can already self-enrage in some hero classes)
In some instances, I’d rather have Gargantaur over Doomclaw, but I kept it in C rank incase it ever did land devours.
Does it feel bad to rate it so low? sure. but, who am I moving it past?
Maybe if they ever changed its spell to a Heavy Splash Damage and check devour chances on the target as well as above and below, it would be more viable.
Yeah, Wulfgarok is hard to place. Great effect if it lands, but if Im assuming its only doing about 30-40 damage on a 22 mana cast, its kinda lackluster. I have it lower due to inconsistency. I’d probably use Wulfgarok over War and Queen of Sin, but I’m more of a gambling man. If I need a consistent team, those other 2 will yield better results.
Doomclaw vs Wulfgarok… Doomclaw does more damage, lol… not in love with either, so swap if necessary.
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Zuul is too slow in a thrown together team in PvP. Build around it and its still a functionally quick troop. One cast in PvP and it can take out 2-3 troops. (or it can backfire lol). At the very least, it gets one of your choice.
I do use it in Guild Wars. which is a more serious form of PvP I’d imagine.
In Delves, Zuul’Goth can hit targets that give Irongut problems (Impervious/Immune to Devour). ZG can also be used in Red and Purple Delves while Irongut can’t. Irongut can’t cover every delve, so multiple delve options aren’t a bad thing.
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I think @Mana_Surgeon plays Nintendo Switch version…
And that’s one more reason why we need to admit that TPK just because of his third trait 
You make a fair point re: Ubastet on scaling content that I hadn’t considered, but Ubastet still occupies a kind of jack of many trades, master of none role that Tacet mentioned in his video. There are better pvp Mythics and there are better delve mythics, and I’d still argue that Aurora and Skadi occupy more unique roles and have more versatility than Ubastet. But you make a good argument as to why Ubastet could be considered better in a vacuum.
This is a great quote. That’s exactly what I’m trying to find out, good teams that people don’t talk about (especially since people only seem to talk about a handful of teams at any given time).
Eric’s Steam guide better explains than I could why Doomclaw is good. It’s basically useful for the easy enrage and the devour chance, not really for its damage, and yes, the devour chance makes it a bit flaky. Enrage is a very powerful status, that ignores all the __skin traits that are so popular on leading troops, so having a passive source of that is really good by itself. A combined >40% chance of devour that you can aim is firmly above average for that ability as well. The combination of the two (plus the fact that you don’t need to warp team composition for those to work) would move it more into the 6-10 range on your list for me, instead of 15th, because most of those in between take more work in exchange for generally less reward/a little more damage. (In general, I’ll note that you value support abilities less, while valuing spells more).
Agree that Wulfgarok is hard to rate, so I usually don’t begrudge people for having it low, and I’m not arguing that it belongs in another tier. To put it bluntly, if I’m picking this low in the tier list, give me the upside pick (Wulfgarok) over guaranteed mediocrity (about half of the C-tier, maybe more) if we have to work so hard to make them usable.
As for Zuul, the point I was making was that it doesn’t make sense to me that Zuul is a tier above Irongut, when they primarily fit the same role, and the consensus is that Irongut is better at that role, not so much to dispute Zuul being in A-tier.
Its funny, ever since Doomskulls have been introduced, skull reduction has never mattered to me except for Delve Faction team battles. In this day and age, the Barrier on Brown gem match on the hero talent seems more effective in comparison.
The only version of enrage I’d ever want is something I can guarantee on the first slot, and there’s no Sylvanimora version of enrage. (I have the same feeling for entangle/Yasmine’s Chosen)
The hero can self enrage on 4/5 match or King Mikhail on a brown match, making them more appealing in that regard.
Its also not possible to aim Doomclaw properly all of the time. Stealthy screws up targeting quite easily and if Doomclaw is only casting for one chance of devour, its rather lackluster. If the target its trying to devour is Impervious, then lol. If there’s a gap between targets, then lol.
Doomclaw is one of the last Mythics I’d want to use against the current “Life and Death Meta team” as it exploits all of Doomclaw’s weaknesses badly.
I won’t stop someone from liking Doomclaw, but it just has too many flaws for my liking.
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Fair points.
Just wanted to add though, that (as Tacet noted) Doomclaw’s devour does skip gaps between targets. It’s still screwed against teams with two stealthy troops in the middle, as you noted - you’ll have to kill one of those two for the devour to really come into play. Sorta similar to teams that rely on splash damage in that regard.
I also wonder if anybody’s tried to use Doomclaw with King Mikhail and/or Urskula, the synergies there are interesting on paper.
Are you a Nintendo switch player?
Yes, he is - I know for shure.
More interesting is: How did you know this? 
I saw him post I’m switch area before. There probably are tier differences between platforms because switch is missing a lot of content
Stalker!!
J/K
Given that the Mythic cards are no different in the Switch version compared to PC, I don’t think that’s much of a factor on the ones we’ve been discussing.
Hell, Ubastet at the present time should be rated higher on Switch, since we don’t have Irongut and I can’t imagine too many players have Zuul. But that wouldn’t affect how I rate Ubastet, because we know Irongut is coming in a couple months.
I’m not sure exactly what the switch is missing, but the value of many troops is because of ‘some other good troop’, and that other troop might not be out on the switch yet. That good other troop could be a common or rare or epic. Or it may need the right hero class and weapon that isn’t out yet.
Then other troops used to be good, until some other troop replaced it or countered it.