Underworld needs reworked bad

7 delve kingdoms yet only 3 delves per day . How about 3 delves per kingdom and throw in a few valravens while your at it. Something is gonna have to change because you all are creating new content that players dont bother to play.


I find delves to be tricky to balance. I can only speak for myself, but I’m only up to lvl 50 delves and they take me a while to slog through, even with a fair amount of resources sunk into hoards. I can only imagine how long some of the really high level delves take, but then again my collection is mid-game at best.

I am not sure the answer is in making more delve runs available, but making them more rewarding to run in the first place. Considering the time sink required to complete a full run, I have found that at least in the 40’s and 50’s, the individual fights and the chest rewards are rather lackluster. Compared to other farming activities, it just doesn’t seem to be worth it unless you REALLY want specific delve troop cards and it’s impossible to target those since they are completely RNG from portals.

Speaking of, I read through an older thread and there’s a LOT of variance on portal drops and in my limited experience, portals take far more effort to grind up shards to open than they are usually worth. That being said, it’s a very fine line to walk between overly rewarding them and under-rewarding them. I’m not a game dev, so I’ll leave it up to them, but not all rewards from the portals are created equal and I’d like to see some of those rewards either bumped up in terms of quantity (gold and souls) or removed so you are more likely to get something more useful (troops, treasures, and ingots). That’s my $.02


Indeed x new players or for those that started recently the underworld (those more than new players that anyway lack troops and stats to do delve properly) more runs a day than 3 would be really useful, 7 factions mean you need do 350 runs to get them to 500 + 1 lvl 100 faction run, that assuming you never fail.

That’s more of 110 days worth of runs and in the meanwhile 3 more factions will be released adding 150 more runs needed.

Faction events help a bit yes but not that much and only x early lvls.

So at the end increasing number of daily runs wont hurt anyone and would help those trying to catch up.

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I get the feeling the devs don’t want Delves to be something easy or quick to be finished/completed. Dragon’s Eye/Transformation was changed because of it…

If anything a more reasonable goal is finishing all ascensions of the Faction troops, it can be done farming a Delve at Level 20 daily, (i suggest Sea of Sorrows) because this would help the players at unlocking more kingdom stars and by consequence help their progress with 4 extra troops at Mythic.

Daily ingots, and Faction Pets are small fries in the great scheme of things, not worth pursuing until much later.


I think if you consider the timing, rewards, and challenge level it’s clear @Razzagor is right. It’s more appropriate to say that Delves are “endgame content you do when you have nothing else left” and not “important content every player should max ASAP”.

Let’s start with the rewards, they’re why we do it, right? They are very meager compared to other tasks. Players get more than 30 stat points for maxing their kingdoms, several of them in Magic. It takes even longer to do kingdom power, but it’s worth another 30 stat points so we do it. So what’s the reward for maxing a faction? Roughly 25% of a stat point and a pet with miniscule effects. If we assume 1 faction per kingdom, the only real perk at the end of the rainbow is +2 Magic. Ouch.

To get there, you have to play vs. monsters that scale higher than in any other event. You have to use teams that are somewhat limited. You’re encouraged to use faction teams that may or may not be excellent. It’s a chore.

Which is exactly why the timing makes sense: as-is, every endgame player has the resources to completely max a kingdom the day it releases. They’ve got ample keys, traitstones, and souls. It’s not even hard for them. 1 day, and all the new content is consumed. But factions take people a few days to sift through, and that’s only the most hardcore of the endgamers. Most people end up spending a lot of time in between factions maxing them, partially because of the sigils but mostly because it’s hard.

So yeah that’s my basis for “this is an endgame challenge”. It’s meant to hook players who have played for 2+ years into sticking around for one more year while the devs come up with the next hook. By 2020, there’s going to be something slower and harder.

On the flip side, newbies who “can’t catch up” aren’t missing much. There aren’t even enough factions for +1 Magic yet. Even when there are, it’s not a huge advantage. Yes, it will take a long time to get there. It took the people who are there 2+ years to do it. I don’t think it takes today’s newbies 2+ years to catch up, but I do think it should take a significant fraction of that time.


There’s a time when I’ll agree and say newbies need to be able to catch up faster. That time isn’t when less than 20% of expected factions are released.


I’m firmly in the “underworld is more work than it’s worth” camp. It’s not fun, there’s no great rewards and I’m certainly not spending gems over and over and over just to cycle that irritation for 7hrs.

However, for those that love it, carry on.

What’s cray cray is… Those still leveling kingdom stars (mid tier players) are who needs to do to Delves the most to get those ingot Renown bonuses. But the Delves are clearly designed for end gamers who needed ingots when it first came out. But now, outside of the pet collection. It’s an utter waste of time and energy. I get the new Faction to 500 asap so that I don’t have do them at all the rest of the month. I do the Tuesday events to get get a sufficient amount of shards to Mythic the new troops. Level 10-110 isn’t bad. Still though, the Delves feel more like a chore than actual fun.

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But you can use a farming faction at level 20 to earn ingots. So any player who can finish the dungeons can earn ingots in the Underworld.

Couple of things are rough with delves:

  • We need more attempts per day (especially catch-up)
  • The ability to choose what level (20,100,300,500,etc) you want to attempt should be allowed
  • The reward structure needs to be revamped entirely (why do I get more full-clearing a 20 than I do 1 room in a 500. 8 glory is an insult for getting 3 rooms in a 500)
  • Increasing the treasure hoard to 1000 needs to be way more cost efficient. It’s almost impossible to pull off an all-faction team without significant investment.

Fact is IT IS easy for those already in game but make 2 counts and isnt hard for who wanna catch up, it’s impossible, each month that pass 50 (totally unrealistic number tho cuz no way there’s not failed runs) runs get added to the total.

Let’s add delve to 1 of many reasons new players wont stick to this game, the catching up is impossible.

Already “old players” dont really bother much with it, it’s amazing see ppls in game from years have half or less than that total renown i got.

But w/e, isnt just there that oldies are scared of the cacthing up, isnt even really about what you get but about getting the feeling to be progressing instead of only seeing “oh, only need 1 year worth of runs to raise the current factions” lol.

Off topic ps: in metalheads on pc there’s a char named Clifford, kick him before next GW, 300% sure i wont start over this game on pc, was a just a test and wont log in anymore.

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I feel it’s better for players to gain overall renown. The Rewards are guaranteed that way rather than RNG from chests. I have no issue with one Faction being used for farming.

But this game have this as an ongoing (Peng)long-term goal. Once you finish one faction you won’t have to play it any longer and there will be a limited number of factions until:

  • The devs make a new way to introduce troops/content like adddin new kingdoms for a while and only later, maybe an year later we see new factions again.
  • The game is shut down.

In any case the only change i believe is required would be a better way to save our progress during Faction Events. Because this is the feature where we can use more sigils to advance the level of Delves, but since there is a leaderboard and how things are tied together we need to start every event at level 20 and spend and play A LOT just to caught up with any previous progress during such events.

While we have few factions rotating this is not a big issue, but by the time we have 10+ factions this should be addressed in some way. Even if it means opting out of the leaderboard score multipliers or something like that.

I don’t think people “need” those ingot renown bonuses. You get better bonuses from doing your daily delves.

The ingot renown bonuses pull from the pool of “all ingots”. That means you’re 90% likely to get common or rare, maybe 8% likely to get epic, with the other 2% split lopsided across legendary or mythic. So your reward for an entire year is expected to be, per ingot:

  • ~330 common/rare ingots
  • ~30 ultra-rare/epic
  • ~7 legendary/mythic

Right now I’m getting 4/day, so I expect to get 28 legendary/mythic ingots this year and probably about 40 epics. (Yes the numbers above add up to 367. Error bars around probability.)

I did my daily delves today and got 16 legendary + 8 mythic ingots. I’m already at 90% of what all of my levels get me annually. I don’t know what the expected rate is, but I rarely leave a faction event with less than +50 mythic ingots and +100 legendary ingots, so it’s like every Tuesday is 3 years of “required” rewards.

A newbie gets far better rewards from a level 20 farming Delve than they will get from wasting sigils on renown. They have better goalposts to chase. You can argue they need the common/rare ingots but here’s my opinion on that: within 2 months of ingots releasing, I had enough common ingots to max every common weapon. Within 3 months I had all the rares maxed. I think it’s pretty “easy” for a “newbie” who is worrying about kingdom power to reach +1 or +2 ingots daily, but I also think by the time they accomplish that goal they probably don’t even need what they’re 90% likely to get.

It’s an endgamer game. The rewards are mostly irrelevant. The point is “it’s hard” and “doing it takes a lot of resources”.

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