[!] Traitstone Ascension/Crafting


#1

Soooooo, this has been talked about, before–even requested, before. But, in the threads I read, there were some kinda pie-in-the-sky numbers listed that probably didn’t appeal to devs who want to keep players playing (and spending money).

My idea is just a twist on what’s been previously discussed–allow players to ascend/craft gems out of others, but make it somewhat cost-punitive to balance things out and encourage continued grinding/farming/purchasing.

Now, for an example:

I’ve been grinding for days on end, trying to gather up enough Arcane Dark traitstones to get Dragon Soul’s second trait. I’m still three short and I haven’t seen an Arcane Dark in probably 50 matches. Yes, yes, I know–RNG.

But!

If the devs are against adding more incentive to play explores on high difficulties by increasing the chances of getting runic/arcane/celestial traitstones… (It seems ridiculous to me that a match played on Warlord IV nets you…a minor traitstone. The feels are in the REALLY?? category.)


At least, consider giving players the option of taking their 300+ minor magic traitstones and craft 100 major magic traitstones from them.

From the 100+ major magic traitstones, allow them to craft 10 runic magic traitstones.

From the 10 runic magic traitstones (and 10 runic fire traitstones), allow them to craft, say, 2 arcane dark traitstones!

From one of each kind of arcane traitstone, allow them to craft one celestial traitstone!


It’s tedious, and it’s not overly rewarding–except that you know you will get those stones you need…eventually.

It’s not as soul-crushing as relying on stupid RNGesus being kind to you, because He rarely is! It certainly would make seeing those minor and major traitstones popping up more tolerable! In my opinion, anyway.

Just my 2¢.


Traitstone Converter Machine
#2

The most requested feature, is this one.


#3

And the most ignored one by Dev


#4

To be fair, what the players want and what the developers want sometimes aligns and sometimes it does not. It’s complicated by the fact that there are also things that players think they want, but really don’t. In the case of Traitstones, the developers see these as the long-pole resource that players can strive toward. Anything they do to make Traitstones (specifically Arcane and Celestial Traitstones, but to a lesser extent the others as well) easier to get devalues them as a long-pole resource.

Players naturally want everything now, or at least as soon as possible, and yet that often results in a lack of interest once all goals are met.


#5

This feature is a good idea, in certain circumstances. The problem however is that for the economy it is not the right time to use this feature.


#6

Also to be fair, most of the proposed exchange rates are bad enough that the average player would be slowing themselves down significantly in the long run by using this feature, but not bad enough that the high end player (one present during the “thousands of glory keys per week” phase of the game) wouldn’t be able to just be getting any free runics or arcane they want (and don’t already have) instantly from their excess pool of Major stones.

I do think that higher difficulties should give slightly better traitstone drops. However, they technically used to, because pre 2.0 you had a 5% chance to not get a traitstone for every difficulty level below Warlord IV. And that sucked. However, a slight increase for explore only in just the quality stones, say, a 5% increase of their current rate in the chance for a higher quality to drop stone for each difficulty level above normal could be rewarding. In other words, boosting arcanes from ~6% to ~7.5% and Runics from ~30 to ~37.5% if you raise the difficulty from Normal to Warlord IV. Even better, adjust down only from the major stone pool to compensate. Give me a reason to push the difficultly limit a bit while balancing my quick clears rather than just sticking to Normal.

Also, I’m not sure if the major stone imbalance has been addressed. Of the last recorded data sets I have, minors were drop about twice as often as majors from battles on average, but you need an average of four times as many minors as majors for any given color. Even gold keys give only three times as many minors as majors on average, and glory keys give majors but no minors. The only current source of minors where you don’t also get majors are weekly glory packs, and now legendary tasks, so you’ll pretty much always have more majors than you need by a wide margin. This was somewhat addressed by guardians needing a bunch of them and mythics needing more major than minors (before they were added, you needed as much as five times as many of a given color minor as majors), but at the current progression the discrepancy will never be corrected.

And yeah, the RNG can kinda suck sometimes. The fastest I’ve gotten 3 arcanes (if I used my fastest explore team) is three and a half minutes. The slowest since explore came out and I’ve been recording drops (assuming the same team) would have been two and a half hours. Thats quite a big gap. The average is about 1/17, though, and I’m up to 132 recorded drops so far.


#7

In others games i played this kind of conversion, upgrading or downgrading, also involves extra resources to be done. Some lesser conversions could cost a high value of gold for each stone upgraded/downgraded and higher stones could demand gems in a certain number.

I understand if this wouldn’t be very popular among the players, but it’s the only possible way i can see to make it happen without making the game’s features (a lot) less valuable…


#8

I can see the point you and others are making about long-pole resources and whatnot… But, I have to disagree. I’m not talking about drastically decreasing the amount of time it takes to grind for the gems–just that getting the gems you need is more of a realistic expectation.

Let’s be honest. If RNGesus is on your side, farming runics, arcanes, and such doesn’t have to take that long! You might get super lucky and it takes relatively no time, at all. But, if RNGesus is forsaking you… It can make everything seem hopeless and the long-pole resource becomes the why-do-I-bother-trying resource.

There’s a really fine line between hard to acquire and /wrist.

I don’t mind having to pay gold, in addition to a punitive cost of stones… I just want a guaranteed way to get the damned stones I need before I go grey. :sob:

Also, yes, an increased chance, even a minor one, for higher difficulty exploring makes lots of sense. The old way it used to be does sound like it sucked. Cripes.

And yeah, the RNG can kinda suck sometimes. The fastest I’ve gotten 3 arcanes (if I used my fastest explore team) is three and a half minutes. The slowest since explore came out and I’ve been recording drops (assuming the same team) would have been two and a half hours. Thats quite a big gap. The average is about 1/17, though, and I’m up to 132 recorded drops so far.

Christ, I WISH I had those kinds of RNG results. But, I do NOT. I rarely get arcanes with constant farming for hours. Soooooo… What gives? Is there some secret luck stat that increases with level, and VIP level? :open_mouth:


#9

Only clear speed and the ability to use a bunch of teams and still be fast, finding ways to tweak your clear times, and just straight using weird teams sometimes… those are the things that make explore fun for me, which significantly cuts into the whole grind factor. Aim for 90 second clear times and you should average a couple hour… this should be possible for most mid-game players with a variety of teams. The Dragon Soul, actually, is pretty effective at hitting this time mark and getting a good amount of souls per battle, and he doesn’t need the traits beforehand to do so.

The times I cited fastest team are half that (< 45 seconds), but also the extreme bad luck streak (3 arcanes in >200 battles) has only happened once in 132 arcanes… normally, the absolute longest I’ll have to wait is about 50 battles, but this has happened back to back a few times. The fastest streak, on the other hand, is 3 arcanes in 5 battles… which has happened I think four times. I can safely say I’ve done enough explores, though, to have a reasonable picture of the average drop rate for arcanes. I’m currently 135 drops in 2357 battles (with a slight downward trend recently). This tracks very nicely with data gathered from the community in 1.8 for normal battles, with my numbers for arcanes in explores being pretty close to 3x what theirs were for normal battles.

Most importantly, try to focus on something other than the number of arcanes you are getting. Farm souls, the arcanes are a bonus. Optimize your team, the arcanes are a bonus. Experiment with fun builds, the arcanes are a bonus. I only track mine so we can have hard data, and I don’t pay attention in the moment, only after they drop to I look at my battle counter via the Hero Classes screen.

Also, we are long long overdue for Arcane Dark to be in a glory pack, if you want the route of just waiting that out. The last (and as far as I know, only) time this happened was the Runesmith over six months ago. Since then, Rock Troll, Death, Amira, the Assassin Class, and The Dragon Soul have made their way into the game outside of glory packs, adding 77 to the amount needed. I know next week won’t have it, but I’ve been crossing my fingers (and farming Ghulvania) for a while.


#10

With my current team, which is the fastest I’ve found that also nets me a decent average of souls, here is an excerpt of my RNG “luck” with traitstones from just this morning/afternoon:

Team
Dragon Soul *
Keeper of Souls *
Shadow Dragon * *
Giant Spider * * *

11:20am - Ghulvania - Warlord I

11:22a - Runic Magic
11:26a - Celestial
11:29a - Minor Fire
11:33a - Minor Fire
11:36a - Runic Fire
11:40a - Minor Magic
11:45a - Major Fire
11:47a - Major Magic
11:48a - Minor Fire
11:56a - Minor Fire
12:02p - Runic Fire
12:06p - Minor Magic

PAUSE

12:30pm - Ghulvania - Warlord I

12:34p - Minor Magic
12:38p - Major Fire
12:43p - Minor Magic

BREAK

1:00p - Runic Magic
1:08p - Minor Fire
1:10p - Major Fire
1:14p - Minor Fire
1:18p - Minor Fire
1:22p - Minor Fire
1:30p - Minor Magic

I meannnnn… The matches started taking longer because I moved my DS from the first slot to the third to protect him longer and maximize soul acquisitions… But, going from the shorter matches to the longer, even if I get more souls, is really irritating.

But, still: no Arcane Dark. Not a one! :tired_face:

I’m grinding for Arcane Darks because I need to stat out my DS. He’s only got his first and after days of grinding for it, I’m still three frickin’ AD short. So, I really don’t want to wait. I know it’s not don’t think it’s coming up soon, even though, to be honest, Ghulvania seems the best place for a Halloween-themed week! :eyes:


#11

Arcane Dark is currently scheduled as a Glory purchase on 11/20, in a Ultra-Rare rarity pack.


#12

Try this build:

Giant Spider
Warlock
The Dragon Soul
Sacrificial Priest (or another necro troop, Banshee, or Shadow Dragon, Drake Rider, etc) Don’t cast Sac. Priest if life drain troops are present (bad in Ghulvania)

Abyssal Banner. Pretty much always use abyssal banner when using The Dragon Soul.

Don’t go above Warlord 1 difficulty while farming. Don’t take skulls if you can take mana for TDS or get a significant amount on Spider. Don’t push for the cap if it is going to the match take several minutes longer (the last cast is only worth 6 souls versus the first 2 being worth 15 each). It is probably feeling like a long time to farm because some of your matches are going up to eight minutes, and you are averaging four minutes - you were barely “due” for an arcane, on average, after 70 minutes of play. If you need to shore up your team to make it sturdier to not lose troops to random skulls (put a Gorgotha or Golem up front instead of Sac Priest and shift everyone back one ) or sacrifice some souls for speed (use more damage dealers or dragons instead of necro troops), or drop the difficulty to normal so you can clear with two shots, do so, you’ll probably also end up with more souls for your time investment anyway along with the traitstones. You just don’t want to block Spider on both colors (preferably none) and definitely dont block or TDS on any color, especially not purple.


#13

People can go on about how eventually you’ll get a arcane from explore. Well eventually you’ll get one from any part of the game. Eventually doesn’t cut it.
I can grind for weeks and Not get One! @Sirrian and @Nimhain. This is supposed to be a fun game.
People get frustrated trying to get the basics in a game people quit and move on to games that are fun. And grinding for weeks for one damn stone is NOT fun.
Please do not respond telling me what the devs think because you aren’t the devs and don’t know. Or tell me about game balance. I do not play a game for balance. I play for fun. Fuitlessly grinding for weeks is frustration not fun.
A trade systen would ease a lot of players frustration. Yes we are a small majority voicing our opinions on this forum. Consider how many don’t come here but quietly walk away.


#14

Since I started tracking I’ve gotten 38 arcanes from 601 explore wins, for an average just under 16 per stone.


#15

I happen to agree. Being on the receiving end of bad RNG for drops sucks, even if explore is by far the most forgiving aspect of the game in this regard.

On this point, I am dubious, however. Unless by “weeks” you mean a handful of explores a day, or every other day?

Overall, pity drops would probably be a better solution than exchange, because it wouldn’t instantly invalidate another resource for another small fraction of the playerbase. As in, a guaranteed arcane if you dont get one in a certain amount of explores. Fifty explores seems to be a good amount, given that is where the most frequent large “bad streaks” I’ve had approach. Adding a pity drop after 50 would barely increase overall explore Arcane gains at all, but would go a long way toward preventing the terrible feeling that comes along with not making progress for a long period of time.

I’m at 135 in 2357 battles. My individual sets varied between 1 in 15 to 1 in 24. I went on a bit of an extended bad luck streak past the 100th stone when I last gathered all the data, but over the last 6 or so it seems to be trending upward again. I’m suspecting the actual drop rate is very close to 6%, so I generally cite 1/17 as a reasonable approximation.


#16

My worst are 42, 42, 49, and 51
My best are 1, 2, 2, and 3

Amazing how many people don’t understand that streaks are a part of being random, to the point that if you don’t see streaks the data likely isn’t actually random.


#17

QFT

I think this would be a great solution for the arcane issue. No one could argue that this would hurt the economy. Plus, it would make people less resentful of the bad streaks.


#18

Try this build:

Giant Spider
Warlock
The Dragon Soul
Sacrificial Priest (or another necro troop, Banshee, or Shadow Dragon, Drake Rider, etc) Don’t cast Sac. Priest if life drain troops are present (bad in Ghulvania)

I dunno… I tried a similar build before and it didn’t work for me, at all. Why this build? Because I’m not the best at seeing what others do, I’ll try level/traiting up my Warlock and Sacrificial Priest, again, to test out this build.

Part of the reason I’m using the team I am is because it has the added bonus of grinding souls simultaneously. But, at this point, I’m happy to hold off on souls if it’ll make getting the traitstones I need more tolerable.

What order do you suggest? And, is my goal still to fill DS or Giant Spider up ASAP, to feed Dragon Soul?

Abyssal Banner. Pretty much always use abyssal banner when using The Dragon Soul.

Gotcha!

Don’t go above Warlord 1 difficulty while farming.

I hadn’t planned on going above it. At this point, it’s not worth the extra time and effort.

Don’t take skulls if you can take mana for TDS or get a significant amount on Spider.

This is good common sense that I try to regularly practice! It does mean that the opponent team eats away at my troops, but a small price to pay.

Don’t push for the cap if it is going to the match take several minutes longer (the last cast is only worth 6 souls versus the first 2 being worth 15 each).

Since I’m going to focus more on clear rate than on soul cap filling, that won’t be an issue.

It is probably feeling like a long time to farm because some of your matches are going up to eight minutes, and you are averaging four minutes - you were barely “due” for an arcane, on average, after 70 minutes of play.

Except I didn’t get any after what I showed. In fact, I hit a “streak” of only minor and major magic stones (and nothing else) for around 10 matches. It wasn’t fun.

And, how is this build going to make my matches any faster? What am I missing?

If you need to shore up your team to make it sturdier to not lose troops to random skulls (put a Gorgotha or Golem up front instead of Sac Priest and shift everyone back one ) or sacrifice some souls for speed (use more damage dealers or dragons instead of necro troops), or drop the difficulty to normal so you can clear with two shots, do so, you’ll probably also end up with more souls for your time investment anyway along with the traitstones. You just don’t want to block Spider on both colors (preferably none) and definitely dont block or TDS on any color, especially not purple.

Can do! Thank you for the very helpful advice and suggestions! I mean, at this point, I don’t know how my matches are supposed to go faster with the build you suggested, but I’ll try it. :blush:


#19

Actually I mean 2 weeks explore everyday for about 2 hours. I got a all minors and majors. I gave up. No I don’t exaggerate. Prior to that I got 1 maybe every 100 to 200 battles.
I am not going through that again! I am totally frustrated with explore.
It went in the garbage with mythics. Over 6 months playing and 1 mythic, death. I can safely say I have pulled over a 1000 of the 50 count chests.


#20

I don’t call 2 weeks of daily exploring without one arcane not understanding what random means. My husband has also written several RNG programs for different companies as a project based programer. So I get that RNG is Never random. The closest you can come to simulating ‘random’ is a code based on milliseconds or similar. No don’t ask me that’s his specialty not mine.