PVP Changes

It’s garbage now, I hate it. I’m in diamond league with a 12k team. I am constantly only able to fight 3 teams that are 21K. Only in central spire can I win 70%+ of my matches I used to be able to go into the silver mark regions, but I can’t win there anymore.

The blood frenzy regions are so bad. It seems like 90% of the teams have a hero with wand of stars and the class that will vine and freeze me on a 4 gem match. I get 1 shot with skull damage and plenty of enemies can wipe my whole team with one spell. Almost every team has a Zuul’Goth, Ctharrasque or both. A lot of teams have Irongut who seems like a 100% chance to devour. Enemies stats are wayyyy higher than mine and it’s almost impossible to loop them with the frozen status.

Nice job ruining a mode that I actually enjoyed.

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This is really sad. I’m avoiding all PvP too. Seems everything is changing except the features we’ve asked for. Can’t set defenders, can’t use quick slots, etc. I’m in a top 50 guild and even our guild leader has stopped playing PvP.

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he is! and puts it all out there for free

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i feel that this point needs reiterated. PvP without hero was a fault. This is in the patch notes for 7.3 iirc. Them adding hero to the teams was always the intended way.

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In Bay of Stars, literally every team is Wand of stars + 3X Defiance. Wow what fun! :roll_eyes:

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Yup. And its been discovered that the intended way isnt fun and needs to be changed

In general, I actually agree with this. Nerfing one meta in a game with multiple choices of meta only pushes everyone towards the next meta, and annoys them in the process.
I’ve legitimately seen games ruined by dev teams with no idea how their own game works, trying to balance the game by nerfing whatever the meta of the week is, and occasionally buffing a random underpowered thing (usually nowhere near the right amount to actually balance it), because all it did was make players annoyed and not bother trying to get powerful stuff since it’d likely not be powerful next week.
However, I’ve also seen those same devs, terrified of upsetting players even more, decide not to nerf “that-one-thing-that-is-ten-times-more-powerful-than-everything-else” and watched every player use that thing and nothing else, and saw how it ruined every corner of the game. It became “get the thing, use the thing, get bored, go away”, for most people.

Nerfing stuff that is a little more powerful, or trying to chase down every single meta, is dumb. No argument here.
But when one thing is not just a little outside of the pack, but so far ahead nothing else comes close, it needs to be the target of balance. If you can so that by buffing EVERYTHING else until they’re all in a similar place, that’s fine (except not always, because if the outlier was a problem you might just be making everything a problem), but generally the best method is to balance the only thing that is in the wrong place in terms of power.
Basically, if everything in the game is balanced around you being at a power level of 100, and all of the classes - combined with other stuff - put you at a power level of 90-95 (or less, but whatever) and one class puts you at a power level of 150, then obviously all the other classes need more power, to get you up to 100. But, that won’t change the fact that the class putting you at 150 is too powerful and needs to come back down to 110 or something. If you push all the classes to 150, all that happens is that everything needs to be changed to 150 instead of 100. Whereas, if you bring the 150 down, you don’t need to make a thousand other changes, to bring everything up to 150, you just need to change that one thing.

Honestly, all the classes need to be looked at, and serious work put into actually balancing them. I’d love for that to happen, and for the result to be a bunch of buffs and changes to various underwhelming classes (and for the dev team to be good enough to successfully make changes that accurately balance them). But whether that happens or not, elementalist is an outlier in terms of power and it needs to be the main focus of balancing. It can still end up being stronger than other classes, and it can still be the main meta, but it shouldn’t be so much better that everything else becomes basically irrelevant. That’s all.

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i am actually enjoying the challenge rather than just mind numbing fights

Yeah. Now its challenging AND mind numbing! Because you have the same teams over and over.

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:point_up_2: Participation level before hero defenses…

:point_down: …and after

As of this post, number 1 in my bracket has 233 victories & 41 defeats.

So how about reverting the punishing defenses ‘fix’ while you figure out how to get a non-punishing version of PvP running? (hint: when you had Center Spire with Hero, and the other regions without hero, almost everyone had a place to enjoy PvP, and surely the leaderboards reflected that)
:person_shrugging: :vulcan_salute:

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I can’t even get myself to do all PVP goals with the defense team “fix”. Ended up at 1701 VP this week, with most of that coming from using GAPs to trigger pets.

Until if/when changes are made to make PVP less obnoxious, I’ll avoid it like the plague.

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@Madd_Hurricane These goals feels like a boring guild event now.

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Dont you guys have elementalist, wand and stellarix?

I hate this new change, because I hate losing and I keep losing over, and over, and over, because PvP stopped being a game of skill (although, to be fair, when we could just smash through not-synergised random teams of four - skill also had nothing to do with it). 99% of my losses are due to RNG and AI getting to loop starting on AI’s first turn. But in all honesty, the reduction of participation made it possible to still stay on top of the bubble without the need to play hundreds of battles just to not get demoted. So… while I still HATE losing and it annoys me to no end that I either have to keep retreating or I have to watch this red DEFEAT screen over and over, I appreciate the fact that this last week I played half the battles I needed the previous weeks and I still got to complete my goals and stay on top of my bubble, and I got to enjoy tons of things outside the game.


The previous weeks, I needed double that just to be 2nd in the bubble, and sometimes even that wasn’t enough to stay in top 3. So… an improvement of sorts.

I still would like to feel less frustrated while playing. And an unfortunate side-effect of the absurdly difficult PvP is that we saw a very big fall in the number of pet rescues this Vault weekend (people just don’t want to play PvP enough to encounter pet gnomes!) compared to the previous one in my guild. We really need an easy/relaxed mode, like old casual PvP.

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The obvious solution is not to nerf anything.
Just make a list of ‘overpowered’ classes/weapons/troops
And if one of them turns up in a PvP defense team, give a 50% chance it turns into a gnome

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OR just revert the PvP back to the hero only in the center spire. Little helpful acronym here, KISS Keep It Simple, Stupid.

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You are right.
And I was really annoyed by the fact that my defense team was 4 random troops and that my stats were utterly useless because I had no control over it.

The problem is that it was so much easier to win when the game choose 4 random troops as defense - most like to win, a lot like easy wins.
Now, well even if it was intended to be this way with a hero, it took the devs - what? 6 weeks? 8 weeks? Before they “bothered” or “finally worked out” what caused the 4 random troop defense- that is a long time!!

Frenzy fights are tough - for some impossible in some of the outer regions now. I lost 5 out of 7 fights in Maraji Expanse today - Sin of Maraj team, before giving up. I had buffs and I am level 1515, but the enemy team’s extra 50% stats were too tough for me. I am not pro, but not a noob either. Some will love the challenge and has the stats and buffs.
But okay, I will skip this region while frenzy is active.

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Hey all,

Just an update on PVP stuff:

The current first priority is investigating a couple of issues:

  1. When PVP opponents are refreshed, only the first opponent is refreshed
  2. Reviewing the code that is meant to favor showing 3 different teams in your opponent selection, due to the reports of seeing 3 of the same team.

Once those 2 things have been looked into we will then move onto looking at the 2 highest priority pieces of feedback:

  1. Opponent Team variety
  2. Clear easy > normal > hard opponent selections

The reason we’re looking at the 2 issues first is because they will affect these 2 points of feedback as well. We think these 2 points of feedback will have the biggest impact for the most amount of players. We are still looking at the other feedback as well but we have to start somewhere :slight_smile:

Just wanted to let you know the team have already made a start on the feedback provided and are taking it step by step!

I will have to catch up in here on what has been said over the weekend. We received a lot of lengthy Guild Wars feedback so I’ve been busy writing that up for the team so we can come back with some answers so that topic can get some good communication on it as well.

I’ll definitely read through here in the next couple of days to catch up and let you know as I have updates to the feedback you’ve given though.

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Stellarix is gated by dupe dragons for me

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You should look at the lack of participation compared to before and take that as a sign…the new pvp isnt fun. Doubly so for those still languishing in dupe dragon land trying to get stellarix while most teams have him in color zones

Say theres an idea: how about break the radio silence on the dupe dragons…its been a YEAR!!! Letting us target dragons we dont have should be priority 1

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