Of Troops and Traits - make legendaries feel legendary again


#1

Warning, wall of text incoming.

The new ascension feature had me thinking. What’s really now the difference between a common troop ascended to legendary and a legendary troop? Stats seem to be about the same. Somebody from the GoW team mentioned they might be upping true legendary stats a bit, that feels somewhat lackluster though. For me, legendary (and the steps in between from common upwards) isn’t really an extra point of armor or two, it’s the exciting special ways troops sidestep the usual set of rules. Like those expensive spells that cost a lot and often do something spectacular.

We probably can’t just give legendary troops more than a single spell, that would complicate things in multiple places. What about traits though? Currently, each troop has exactly three traits, which seem to be assigned somewhat arbitrarily (e.g. some troops might receive a trait as third pick which another troop receives as second pick, at varying costs). Those traits also make troops feel special, even just experimenting with combinations is a lot of fun.

Let’s just suppose traits were collected into groups, a group of common traits, a group of rare traits, a group of ultra rare traits, a group of epic traits, a group of legendary traits. Let’s further suppose troops received traits based on the true rarity they start out with, never affected by ascension. A common troop would receive a predefined common trait (for a total of one), a rare troop would receive a predefined common and a predefined rare trait (for a total of two), a legendary troop would receive a predefined common, rare, ultra rare, epic and legendary trait (for a total of five). Traits would have to be unlocked in sequence (from common to epic) and would cost the same (in trait stone amount and rarity, not color) based on their rarity group. This could even be expanded to mythic rarity, should such troops ever be introduced.

Would this work to make rarer troops more interesting? It feels like it would make progression smoother, something to aim for in the long run after getting the goblin team going. Just speaking for myself, I’d find myself wanting to switch to true ultra rare or better troops, because they have more to offer than true common troops could ever receive, even when ascended. It would also even out those bumps in trait stones requirements, because troops have to pass through each cost layer, of which the higher ones are only available to a selected few. Of course, such a balancing change could only be introduced by resetting all traits and refunding the trait stones spent. Which, like always, doesn’t sound like that much work to the person not having to do it. :wink:

So, bad idea?


#2

Interesting idea, though not sure it’s work-able in the confines of this game - we are more likely to see traits staying three to a card, as:

  • it would be a major redesign which I doubt the devs will have time/resource for
  • three each fits nicely on a card page
  • it has a symmetry at the moment that will please some people (like me!)
  • we’re unlikely to see any change completely reverse what people have already invested time and resources (and maybe cash) to unlock - great way to get too many players to rage-quit (noted your point about refunding - but that doesn’t give back time or solve emotional responses)

I absolutely agree with the idea that rarer troops need to feel rarer, and legendaries need to feel most special - see the Goblageddon thread for my comparison of a Goblin with a Kerberos (basically the Goblin has stats as good, and a far better faster spell, and can be obtained infinitely more easily - who’d bother seeking out very rare three-headed daemon dogs when goblins breed like rabbits and end up better).

Love your sentiment - one solution would be making sure the legendaries have the best traits, after all they cost many more, scarcer traitstones to unlock - are they worth it…

…except that the traits are already allocated… hmm…

What other ideas do people have?

PS - re-labelling your thread to make the point clearer, hope that’s okay…


#3

I would like to see true legendaries get some more interesting and/or unique traits.

I mean, for example I saw Atlanta had True Shot at PAX. I thought that would be something that was her’s because she’s this master archer and so on - and then it turns out that seven other troops have it, including two commons and three rares, Avina and Orion. And it’s like, OK, Orion can have it, and I guess Avina needs to be super accurate with her staking, but the Gnoll with a randomly targeted axe gets True Shot?

Not the best example, lets go to actual legendaries. I maxed out Keeper of Souls because a) he was the first one I got to Mythic, b) I’d used him before, c) was actually using him in 1.0.8, d) the only Arcane Traitstones in abundance are those ones because of the event (a rant from other threads, moving on). His traits… are not impressive. Necromancy is nice and not as common, but contributes nothing to the actual fights. Life Drain is reasonably helpful but also somewhat common (seven others), and not as useful on lvl20 troops who are quite large. But then we have Fireproof, which is borderline useless.

Not strange enough? Lets see. We have Goblin King and Gar’Nok both with the Leader trait, which makes a lot of sense thematically but NO sense tactically speaking since they function best at the back of the team summoning more cannon fodder (or they would if said cannon fodder properly scaled up, yet another rant from elsewhere).

There are all the ones that have Fireproof AND Pyromania. Neither of these traits are particularly useful what with the lack of burn-capable troops. You could use a Salamander. Fine. But you could also get nearly the same result with Hunter’s Mark, and have some other trait. Still doesn’t solve Fireproof.

I bet Daemonic Pact, which a few legendaries seem to have, summons an Ancient Horror without stats worth damn for similar reasons to other summons going wrong. (Moloch has this trait AND the above two!)

Troops with poison abilities gaining Venomous (poison on skull damage). Thematically, that makes sense. Troops without poison abilities getting this trait which could do that, thematically, like Spiders, is great. Webspinner and Shadow Dragon, who poison the whole enemy team every cast, don’t benefit from this at all.

And then we have a few who get sort of useful traits like mana gain and Jinx and so on.

And then we have Gloom and Venoxia, whose traits all serve the same purpose of making them into an unstoppable death machine.


#4

Yes, that struck me as hilarious! Only a moron would put a summoner in the first slot… unless you ONLY fight Rock Worms…


#5

A Level 15 Summoner from the challenge spawned a Level 1 Ancient Horror -.-


#6

Oh, that’s even worse than I thought. I figured it’d at least be the level of the summoner.


#7

As we have now, trait-wise the legends are hosed even more. As I can buy common’s traits with what I have at hand while for legendaries it requires things almost nonexistent. While the trait itself is really the same.

This weird design is quite the opposite we’d expect and what we see in other places.


#8

Exactly. The insult added to the injury. Not only are the traits on legends expensive out of reach, they don’t even make the slightest sense.

… “That’s amazing! I’ve got the same combination on my luggage!”


#9

Perhaps they could adjust the effect of the traits when applied to a higher base rarity card. Since it would only be a buff, it wouldn’t fall into the trap of destroying people’s investments. Some of the traits wouldn’t make any sense because they are an added effect rather than a boost of some sort, but the boost ones could see an adjustment.

For example the +2 health to ally humans. Maybe that is how it works on a base common and rare troop. On a base Ultra-Rare or Epic troop it would be +3. For base Legendary it is +4.

-Razlath


#10

So basically like the ‘Big’ and ‘Huge’ traits - +1 or +2 life on 4/5 match, respectively. Big is only on Rares and Ultras, Huge is only on Legendaries. I guess Epics didn’t get it because they’re largely humanoid NPCs or something.


#11

I’m not sure why you are aiming to make legendaries more powerfull (thats, what good/powerfully unique traits do). I realy like the idea of makeing common cards more powerfull, even if u (a) need a lot of time (to collect keys) and copies of that cards. (i made the huge mistake and disenchant many many cards close before the 1.08 anouncements :frowning: )

1.08 is only 1 week old and i’m realy interessted, how new card combinations with a good mix between all rarity grade will come up. Hopefully we will see less goblins soon.

Keep in mind, only my opinion :). have fun all.


#12

I’m pretty sure that shouldn’t be happening.


#13

@Nimhain

I recently played the “Summon the Horde” Challenge again. This was the summoner:

And this was the summoned Ancient Horror:


#14

Well, going by the level number on those cards, it’s not only a 25% chance to summon an Ancient Horror on death, the Ancient Horror will also summon at 25% levels. :smile:


#15

It’s more like aiming to be able to put as much effort into legendaries as we are able to put into commons. And ending up with a legendary more powerful than a common once both have received the same amount of effort.


#16

I’ll make a note for the team to take a look at this, most likely happen untill after the holiday season though.