Nerf some Troops, Hero Class and Weapons!

My $0.02

Don’t start nerfing stuff. I can see arguments for and against the current meta, but I don’t think it’s cut and dry over powered. I had been playing the lust meta and switched to the life and death meta and my numbers dropped. Do it can’t be that universally awesome.

The real problems are that the ai cheats in terms of fudging the percentages on everything. Making it suck for us doesn’t necessarily fix that. The other problem is that we all put up the same teams.

While I grumbled about them killing the 4 firebombs team because it slowed down gold farming, it was more fun having variety. A hard team is fine, it’s facing it over and over to the exclusion of anything else that is broken. I think that is really what needs to be fixed.

I’m going to stack my 2 pennies on top of yours.

The real problem being discussed in this thread isn’t PvP. It’s GW. If a weapon is OP and winning 85%, that means you are almost guaranteed to 4-1 no matter what team you run. It’s also a lot more likely you will 3-2.

This is exacerbated because while in PvP we can lay out all of our troops and indicate which ones represent a strong strategy vs. the meta team, in GW we’re going to have at least 50% of the available troops stricken from the “optimal” approach. So the people building the teams know you can’t build the right counter team. Remember what I said about 3-2 being really likely? What if they can make it statistically true you’ll 2-3?

I could go on and on, but the real core problem is GW sucks as a competitive mode. If this is a game where we’re perfectly happy with a 90% win rate and the other 10% being luck, then it makes no sense for a competitive mode to ask you to win 6 matches in a row.

But circling back, that’s how every nerf thread goes. Somebody says they don’t like the weapon because it makes GW suck. Then everyone else in the world argues that since PvP isn’t broken, the weapon’s fine. And no one addresses that almost all drama on the forums about nerfs has revolved around how unhappy we are with GW for more than a year.

It’s not a bug. Hero gets a double damage to life, so of course it can summon 2 spiders. The trait is Summon a spider when I take damage, it’s the direct attack (1 spider) and the burning damage (1 spider), so it’s actually working as it should do.

I can agree that if a Hero takes two bits of damage to Life (e.g. two separate skull matches), it could summon two spiders.

Burn damage takes place at the start of the opponents’ turn, though, so I think it’s unlikely it was this combined with a direct attack (which has to occur on the player’s turn).

I’m pretty sure the example in the link I provided has made its way to the Known Issues list, I think perhaps in particular because the Hero didn’t take any damage (it was absorbed by the summons, instead):

sbrowser

Obviously I don’t know the particular details of Sheffield’s match.

I think this is normal.
I attack the Hero with all variants and he summon 1-3 Spiders. 50% is not really 50% for me is this 80%

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Agree 100% with this, needs a revamp, rebalance, or replacement.

I’ll take gw needs a review as a more core answer.

However, I don’t think they can force you to take the loss. Just worst case they can force you to take less than maximum points by running a viable counter team rather than a full color team.

AKA, “A loss, unless you also run the same team with the same win-rate they are running, because scoring points is how you win.”

You know how you referenced about facing 4 Firebomb teams non-stop in PvP? The past 3 GW I’ve played have been at least 30% Life and Death and 15% Rope Dart. Roughly half my matches are against the same team. That’s not a healthy GW setup.

I’m still annoyed with the divine ishbaala nerf
No one can think past their current situation, then everyone pays later.
Wouldn’t it be nice to have another cleanse all, now that there’s multiple new status ailments and 50 new ways to be affected by them by heroes, factions, and enemies with 500 life/armor in events
So many teams I would have made differently if this nerf never came about

3 Likes

I agree with this assessment.

In context, the original Ishbaala was far too powerful. The Divines team was already stupid powerful, and the arrival of Ubastet made it worse. I didn’t think nerfing Ishbaala was the right approach, but it was part of several nerfs that definitely did something about the prominence of Divines.

But.

Since then, several other troops with roughly the same power level as original Ishbaala have come out. I think you’re right that, in this environment, she might be strong enough to “be meta” but not strong enough to “dominate meta”.

I think that’s what whoever (yes, I’m too lazy to scroll up) meant when they talked about longer-term plans. But I don’t think we should’ve had to sit and tolerate that meta for months while we waited for the game to warp around it.

The game’s always changing. Every new troop and every new weapon raises the possibility of some new meta where it’s the only dominant factor. Sometimes the devs make mistakes. It’s more fun if they can correct those mistakes with new teams, but let’s face it: they design their content in 3 month batches, so if they accidentally introduce Fizzbang 2 it can be an entire update before they can even start thinking about a response. Balance adjustments are faster. In some games, they happen weekly or semi-weekly. Maybe if they were more common in GoW we wouldn’t get so bent out of shape about them.

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Life and Death is just crazy overpowered. Want to win more Defensive games than you lose in PvP? Use: Grave Seer, Life and Death+Orbweaver (Haunted Weave/Root Trap/Dusk’s Aura/Stealthy), Arachnaean Weaver+King Averlorn

King Avelorn starts all Elves at 50% mana (so your Hero, himself, and Weaver). Grave Seer converts green to purple, and Life and Death slaughters the back line. Grave Seer dies? 50% chance to summon a Giant Spider when your Hero gets hit. And Weaver and L&D both do TRUE damage to the back two enemies.

So why is Life and Death the culprit? Let’s compare it to another weapon… Secrets of the Crypt, which steals life from the 2 weakest enemies (not necessarily the back), then summons a random Undead. What else does Secrets do? 10% chance to summon Quasit (useless), gain 4 mana (basically reduces all further casts down to 11 mana from its 15 cost), drains 3 mana from first enemy (same as L&D), and creates a Bonestorm (that can work AGAINST you, you’re giving enemy team a Bonestorm first).

Life and Death always targets the last two enemies, PLUS Death Marks them. Okay, that’s pretty good, because I’ve been on the receiving end of many “Oops, my last troop is dead the next round from Death Mark.” Then on top of that, it Blesses the Hero, which makes him immune until he casts again. Immune to what? Well, you can’t target him because of Stealth, but you also can’t Stun him because of Bless! Then because that’s not enough, they gain Enchant (2 mana every turn).

I use the +2 purple banner, so 1 purple match gives 5 mana, plus 2 from the enchant. That’s 7 mana on the first turn. My surge chance is 65% though, so basically I’m casting Life and Death every 3 turns, sometimes every 2 turns. You’ll kill the enemy back line in 3 casts at highest levels of play (most life).

Then on top of all that, it drains 3 mana from your first troop, so if you were hoping to cast that one next turn, you have to wait another turn…

How would I balance this monstrosity? Raise cost to 18 mana, remove Enchanting and Draining from it. Add maybe Damned, which curses the first enemy, and something else…

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Glaycion, Doomed Crossbow, Apothecary, Lord Ember: not sure I’ve ever lost a match against the Weaver + L&D squad…

…before I started using the above, I tried Essence of Evil squad vs Weaver + L&D: lost pretty much all encounters…

Need to keep working on my Tactics and Strategy so that other opponents that appear OP at first can be duly tackled: fortunately, I enjoy the process of testing different approaches and their effectiveness, since as a LGoH refugee this was not an option before I discovered GoW last year.

:blush::vulcan_salute:

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But a burn on skull damage skill deals an instant double sourced damage.
Skull damage, burn effect AND burn damage in the same turn when it’s applied. If you run the fight on 1x speed, you’ll notice that the unit hits, inflicts skull damage (first spider), inflicts burn effect, and burn kicks in and deals damage (2nd spider). Then the turn passes to ai.

So it’s techically equivalent to multiple skull hits during a cascade, each has a separate chance to spawn a spider. I’ve once spawned 4 different spiders in a single turn with a lucky doomstorm fueled cascade🤷

Maybe you should actually watch the video before trying to find excuses for multiple spawn when there’s none lmao, no burn anywhere or anything already burning, 1 ishi cast that make 1 match (with a doomskull that explode 1 normal skull), enemy hero took ZERO damage (no barrier or anything either) and spawned THREE spider at same time (NOT in the same turn).

Then first spider took the damage of the only skull hit from ishi (another thing that make no sense seen the doomskull +5 isnt even counted) having his armor reduced by 39 and that is.

That’s board when casted ishi:

That’s when matches are made, the skulls on top a 3 match in bottom mid and a 4 match on the right (game is so much flashy flashy ofc but that’s all what happened actually lol):

Good luck telling me fairy tales about poison, burn and other imaginary crap.

Not that i got problems (even tho i lost past gw to someone that used my pvp def in gw rofl, that not the so called “meta”) with L&D/orbweaver seen right now i just roflstomp anything with ropedart and also got myself (and gonna stay there forever until it’s sorted) it as def but let’s not try find lame ass excuses for something that defo dont work as it should.

Thx

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Where did the Darkstorm come from?
:sweat_smile::thinking::vulcan_salute:

Orbweaver talent i guess.

That would imply that we’re looking at turn 1? :flushed::face_with_monocle:

Storms start at 8 i think? so it’s actually my third turn, yes was a slow match… happen.

And well if you ever used that team you should know how it work, despite the 3 stupid spiders i still won in that same turn, loopers ftw.

What I meant is that the video starts at turn 1, with 91 gold, 3 souls, and 1 treasure map, assuming that Darkstorm is indeed from Orbweaver talent

That’s a mean turn 1! :sweat_smile::metal:

Oh kk, well, once converters start hardly they ever stop, my most liked GW day is green exactly for that too (for how much i can like a GW day hahaha).