Is this moral?

My point has always been to help but it’s on them if they don’t take help or seek help. By telling them ‘it’s ok it’s not your fault. It’s the companies fault for putting these things out’ (which, by the way is not breaking any laws) you’re pretty much enabling them by saying their addiction is ok. You’re saying they’re the ones that doesn’t have to change and/or get help and that a company shouldn’t put out a product because these addicts won’t take the personal responsibilty to get help in the first place.

Regardless if the product is subjectively worth it or not I should not be deprived of the choice to buy it if I want to just because someone is too weak minded to seek and/or accept the help someone is offering them.

No, everyone is saying:
“Stop with the practices that can prey on people unaware of the true value of these currencies.”
And:
“There are people out there that, as much as they want to get better or never get ill from the start, don’t know how or who they can seek to get treated. It’s not a matter of choice most of the time.”

No disagreeing with you is enabling anything or anyone. Mental disorders are not like a paper cut, there are birth/genetic factors and also traumas that can play a major role on how such issues will develop until a point the individual is not ABLE to make proper decisions for themselves.

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So what you’re saying is a company shouldn’t put out a product I could potentially want because these people cant take personal responsibility to get help even though they could have gotten said help way before their addiction got out of hand. On top of all of that you’re saying this is ok even if what the company is putting out is within their legal right.

Ok so I like you guys a lot and I will still like you guys after this discussion (yes even slypnslyde even though he’s a douche sometimes) but that is the biggest pile horse crap I have ever heard.

I think the OP makes it clear that the product isn’t the problem, but rather the price.

Let’s look at a topical case study to illustrate:

The free market would say that, since the demand for toilet paper is so high these past couple of months, companies like Charmin should feel free to up their prices—people are gonna buy whatever little they can find because it’s so scarce and people have been convinced they “need” it. But that’s price gouging, and that’s generally thought to be icky in an immoral way because it’s taking advantage of the vulnerable.

And no one wants the whole world to be walkin’ around with smelly butt cheeks.

In Gems of War’s case, the vulnerable are those who don’t know what they don’t know—namely, new players. They don’t even realize they should be doing their due diligence. They’re just being shown these “great deals” and trusting the company not to lie to them about how “great” the deals are. That’s shady.

Where it becomes, in my opinion, criminal is when we’ve wandered into the territory currently under discussion: actively trying to swindle those who aren’t just ignorant (and who can afford to have a “you fooled me once, shame on you, but never again” mentality), but those who have a problem. Certain business practices enable problems to exist and persist. That’s flat-out evil no matter how much I like certain other aspects of capitalism.

It’s hard to throw away your house on gambling if you’re only allowed to spend a certain threshold of your income on it. Sure, that’s paternalistic, and not “pure” free-market—but there’s a reason certain things, including video games, have certain regulated price caps; it’s to protect the interest(s) of the consumers. So, yeah, I get annoyed when companies try to side-step regulation in pursuit of profit. And, so, yeah—I wish, in some cases, companies were reigned in a little more, and I’d have absolutely no problem with certain products being outright illegal.

For instance: no one needs a cigarette.

And I’m not even saying people shouldn’t be allowed to partake in tobacco. I’m instead saying that even people who should be allowed to enjoy tobacco deserve a better product than what is currently allowed to dominate the market, to the detriment of everyone; that tobacco companies bear some responsibility in putting out a good product at a fair price rather than an addictive piece of garbage literally designed to do harm. And they should be restricted to selling only to those capable of doing right by themselves : i.e—don’t market to children, don’t trick the consumer, etc…

In the case of Gems of War, I think OP would be a lot less upset if mythic ingots weren’t as costly as purple deeds. That’s the point.

No one’s saying you can’t sell mythic ingots.

People are saying mythic ingots should be sold with some integrity—a sense of ethics—and a sense of responsibility toward the consumer.

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happens all the time. lawn darts, heroine, surface to air missiles. some things just arent’ allowed on the market because of inherent abuses.
alcohol has been heavily regulated because of those abuses, and now it’s become recognized that bartenders should NOT enable drunks by serving them at their request.
as one example.
in this specific case, it’s more about the moral responsibility of the game designers than whether they shouldn’t be allowed.
and if you knowingly put out a product that takes advantage of some peoples’ addictions, is that moral?
in the case of cigarettes the answer was clearly no.
i’d say in the case of mobile purchases of bits of data, that’s not quite so cut and dried.

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MacGyver does.
to defuse the bomb and save the world.
he also needs a pack of gum, a thumbtack, and one of those desk trolls dolls.

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We’re going around in circles here. I still don’t see why these people can’t get help before it gets that bad. To me it’s irresponsible and flat out passing the buck to people who actually choose to live healthy lives. I shouldn’t be punished just because someone can’t take responsibilty of their own actions and get help. Instead, people like me are forced to be deprived in products that do not harm the majority of the public. It’s ridiculous.

In any case thanks for your efforts in trying to make me understand.

Your ignorance is staggering.

Dev/publisher apologists are the most boring contributors to these forums :sleeping:

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Your crying is staggering

Sorry, there’s no handrails because we don’t believe in spending money to support the weak.

Lol whoooooooosh!

I think we have so many strawman arguments here, that there is little room for grain. I think the arguments are plain enough to see, but it comes down to the issue that those who are vulnerable, should be protected from these practices.

It is mostly agreed that it isn’t that this product shouldn’t be restricted, but the presentation is the problem. I think the grouping of various demographics is not the way to go. There are separate arguments for different groups, and I think this isn’t the hill to die on for any of them.

For this I am only looking at the daily gem offers as I have made my opinions on other shop aspects plenty of times. TLDR: I think GOW has serious shop problems with prices and whale hunting so bad it makes captain Ahab envious. It has actually improved since then.

That all said, I’ll be the devil’s advocate and agree with @Denthegod here, that there isn’t any major issue with the daily offers. I’ll use this ingots deal as the example.

  1. Price: This price point is insulting to any endgamer, and even midgamers who do delves. While the issue this is noob predatory is the complaint, that’s only one viewpoint.

Based on the gem chest breakdown, technically, a mythic ingot is rarer than a mythic troop. If you get an ingot, the chance is over 6x greater for a mythic ingot than a mythic troop from the troop pool in their breakdowns. How rare it the mythic ingot in pvp rewards?

There are ways to earn mythic ingots, but while this is a bad bargain, if someone needs a couple, it looks tempting.

If this upsets you, I’d like to mention I once had a guild mate who converted 3000+ diamonds into souls for dawnbringer, then would complain about missing mythics. It still hurts to this day.

  1. Limitation: Since these are limited to one per day and can be earned rather than straight up bought, I think these are far less potentially harmful or annoying than flash offers which require $.

While someone may have regret buying it, I think there are way worse options.

  1. Value: This is subjective. While I hope most of the lesser offers get buffed after seeing how often they get skipped, there is probably someone who wants those items.

I’m including this as even if this ingot example was 5 gems, I’d never take it. If there were 50 of each ingot for 50 gems, I’d say never. To a new player, thats a steal.

I have 453 Celestial traitstones. I have enough to craft each mythic troop and enough wisdom orbs to trait them all. To me, these are both currently junk. I remember the time where I frantically opened keys hoping for Celestials to craft plague before he left the soulforge. (I failed to get enough, but I got my first aby so I successfully failed)

This is why patience is a virtue.

Tldr: while I agree not all daily offers are equal, I do not consider them predatory or that big of an ethical issue upon reflection. I’d rather buyer’s remorse over one of the bad deals here, than buying a kingdom legendary pack pre 4.9

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As mentioned above, a lot of the arguments presented are either straw men arguments, or not relevant to Gems of War.

There is a discussion to be had here about mental illness, vulnerable groups of people, and the nature of legality vs morality, so if you want to continue this discussion please be civil at each other and don’t violate community guidelines. (Some of the comments are close, please be open minded and don’t attack each other.)

F2P games make their revenue through voluntary purchases, and is a certain kind of game model. Each game has their own approach, and some games require players to spend hundreds a month to remain competitive. We try to avoid this, which means we don’t sell individual meta troops at very high prices, even though we would likely make a lot of money from a strategy such as this.

What about us the consumer who spend real cash on this game and dont recieve our items even though messages were sent saying they were sent out and still waiting for a reply 2 days later?

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@Anoobis we are sorry that this situation occurred. Our support team sent out missing purchases this morning.

Any players that haven’t received their rewards will have their tickets responded to manually tomorrow, and rewards sent. Our support team is investigating and manually checking what they can, and doing their best in this time. We apologise for any frustration, distress or hurt caused, and are rectifying the situation as best we can.

Your ticket can’t be responded to tonight as our support team have already worked additional hours, but your ticket will receive a response tomorrow. I am also here, telling you now, that we will sort this out for you, and you won’t go without your purchases. We also include a little extra in apology.

Now I am off topic, for which I must apologise again.

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Literally they could…
tenor - 2020-05-04T041205.599

Want to grind for 1k hours or just spend 1k $ and get Dawnbringer?
Envious of Zuul’Goth? He’s yours for $500.

Whales would pay it in a heart beat.
No Ads to complain about, no questionable shop prices. Tickets would be resolved quicker due to more staff potentially. Less bugs as well possibly.

Seems like a lot more issues arise by trying to be ethical in their opinion.
I don’t believe I’ve weighed in on the matter yet.
I guess it’s because to a certain extent. I think it’s because any sort of expectation for a company to take the moral high ground is ridiculous to me.
Should they do anything illegal or cause harm to others? Absolutely not.
But an individuals mental health is not a video games company responsibility to govern.
Nor should they be guilted for trying to make money off a game that’s expensive to make (and maintain)… But literally given away for free.

I will never, never, never, never understand the plight of someone who plays GoW for absolutely free, but feels entitled enough to complain when the game tries to make money. With zero self awareness that they are not only not spending money on the game. But every second they play on the server…(and don’t watch ads)…costs Infinity Plus 2 money. Basically the company is sponsoring you to play their game.
So if you can’t afford to spend money on the game. Which is definitely understandable during these times. Then at the very least pay for the game in the form of gratitude towards the devs.

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The company was off for those 2 days.

If the person was buying the car for free. Sure.
If they were paying money with their hard earned money? I would say it’s the individuals responsibility to have knowledge of what they are investing into.

So basically your argument is to be more concerned with new players than the actual end gamers that are the target with the offer.
New players shouldn’t even be worried about upgrading mythic weapons at all. And if an end gamer wants to spend that amount of gems on ingots that’s their call.

I think a lot of the prices in Gems of War make zero rational sense. But I’m confident that none of them were priced in a way with the intent to screw players over. Their prices are determined by their supply and demand data. Nothing less, nothing more.

Right now gas is at least 150% cheaper than what it should be. Is it in moral to fill my car up? Shouldn’t I just get exactly the amount of gas I need so that in no way am I making any money off of today’s financial climate?
But if I need gas no one is going to tell me to feel bad for it right? Well if someone “needs” mythic ingots then 100 gems and ingot saves you from 100 pvp matches (that’s on a good day).
Or… About 10 hours worth of free tributes.
Then go for it.
There’s an immense amount of players and platforms available to ask “is this worth it for me?” Including this one. I never feel bad for those who choose not to seek help and prefer to be ignorant.

If you want claim Infinity Plus 2 is sleazy in an anyway. I think you could make a better case with Coin Purses and Gold Rings in Factions. Those are literally designed to prey on ignorance.

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You are all oblivious! Nobody has caught on yet to what is actually happening? Fortunately, I have seen this before.

First of all you have to ask yourself, who is most likely to spend on this game? Noobs. Then you have to look at what is available to buy. Garbage and noob traps. Apply a little logic (which this community seems to have a dreadful lack of) and what does that all tell you?

If you offer deals to end gamers that they clearly dont need, such as 2 mythic ingots for 100 gems, and you call it a good deal, you are going to drive them away from the game.

Why would a game company such as IP2 want to do that?

So why wouldnt IP2 want to drive away the players who have already spent their money or played for free for so long it is clear that they never will?

Go ahead and call it a conspiracy theory if you want to but I have seen it happen. To all the end gamers, IP2 doesnt want you here. You have spent already and now you are just costing them money. To all the noobs, look at this shiny chunk of shit we have here! It’s a bad deal but you dont know that yet so please spend your $50 on this pack that we will tell you has a $150 value (when its maybe worth $5) and dont forget its shiny!

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