Those were previews, silly! These are sneak peeks.
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Videos are hard. Think of it as less time spent showing us things and more time spent making them.
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For the record: As the leader of another rank 20-30 guild, Iâm in agreement with Hoguns/@ogunther and Mean Machines/@DonBoba on this. I was looking forward to some âfriendlyâ competition between our three guilds in Guild Wars. Brackets seem to support that. With a single bracket, it appears weâre reduced to bragging rights and ceding the actual rewards to top5 guilds.
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I believe your comment was directed at me, and I did read it, I just ignored it since I sensed the sarcasm. While I realize it isnât as simple as 1 pt for a win, Iâm assuming something a bit different. Specifically, that all the top teams are going to maximize their scores, however that happens. So it wouldnât be 1 pt, but it might be 20,000. Also, the devs previously mentioned that organized top teams would still likely remain near or at the top. So extrapolating from those, I believe that (barring horrible luck with RnG):
- A top level disorganized/average guild will beat a mid level disorganized/average guild.
- A top level organized guild will beat a mid level organized guild.
- A mid level organized guild will beat a top level disorganized/average guild.
I believe these line up with some of the specific âdirectionalâ statements from the devs. However, #2 precludes (and directly opposes a PvP type scoring system where more points are awarded for beating tougher opponents. It would mean that if a top team plays an organized guild, they are effectively guaranteed a loss due to this sort of âhandicappingâ.
So I too am greatly interested in how the actual scores are calculated, and answers to @Jainus scenarios (and maybe some others). My guess though is that we wonât get them in this thread, and Iâm thinking we might have 2 more previews (âScheduleâ for the defense stuff and âScoringâ). Iâll try to be patientâŚ
NOTE: Just to be clear, I am not saying top guilds shouldnât be âworth moreâ, there is a good argument for that. My point is simply that I believe the devs have said something different in the past.
I really think we will see more shuffling of which guilds win the Guild Wars from week to week than it seems most people are expecting.
Yes, I expect the top 5 most active guilds from the week to be staying in the top 10. More because they tend to have the most competition driven players, in my unprofessional opinion.
For other guilds, who might have 1-3 people inactive for a couple days, it will give lots of other 30 member guilds a competitive advantage.
There will be a lot more peer pressure to not miss any of your weekâs guild war matches than we had when weekly requirements were flexible over a week.
Iâm excited to see what will happen on the positive side for everyone not looking to be the top 5 guilds.
On the negative side, I do expect to see an ultra level of rage if a member of a top guild gets a disconnect loss from server connectivity issues, costing the entire team victory for the week.
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Iâd even prefer them to be dropped entirely. Going by the preview, some players can get +20 to magic, which feels high enough to be the only deciding factor within a fight. Canât imagine the utter slaughter of such a buffed team going against an unbuffed team, even the AI might win that consistently.
Do we really need a gem reward at all? Guild Wars had me hooked at âextra troopsâ and lost me again with this extended reward scheme. Why not hand out troops only, just distributed in a way that lower ranked guilds donât end up with next to nothing? Could even be based on how many fights your guild won during the week, so youâll put up an effort even if you have nothing to gain from rank.
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That all sounds great, and iâm definitely on board. The only question then remains how do they monetize it?
Charging money for some type of advantage is the only way I see it working.
Unless they pay-gated the entry, which is not welcome.
Have to come up with something, because I hate the gem cost too.
Im in agreement with this 100%.
Top 20 performing guilds will in 99% cases win daily battles against any other guild, but guilds on total trophies on top will slightly vary. I dont expect intrim or anon to be 1st every week, but i expect seeing them in top 10 every week.
Maybe buying into some kind of bonus placement reward would work. Basic reward is just cards, bonus reward is additional resources. Buy one of several reward tiers up to, say, Tuesday, the placement reward you personally receive at the end of the week will be increased accordingly. Itâs also a gamble, just one that only affects you, not the entire guild.
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Donât kid yourself @Mahamoti. You, @ogunther and @DonBoba will be slogging it out with us, no matter how they set the brackets.
Letâs get it on ⌠
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Where did this number come from? My reading of the sneak peek is that the player themself can get +5 magic, and then if everyone in the guild maxes out their magic score, only the paragon gets an additional +5 magic. Thatâs only half the buff youâre talking about. And further, that is at most one member of each guild that could possibly be so boosted.
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Yeah that could work. It has to be some kind of advantage or buff, and big enough at that to purchase.
Something that would overall sell more than gems if theyâre going to replace it.
Some kind of buff for the entire guild would probably work better overall.
Yeah thatâs the way I understood it as well.
I tried to understand⌠Itâs written on the screenshot â+0.5 for higher ranked Guildmatesâ. What does it mean?
Else what are the max bonus that a Paragon can get?
As much as I understood the screenshot, you buy +5 magic for yourself and +0.5 magic for every other guild member ranked higher than you. There are several ranking tiers, the topmost one will get 5 + 29 * 0.5 ~= 20, the ranks in between will get somewhat less.
One way that this â0.5â could make sense, is:
I assume the guild used in Sirrians example has 11 members.
That means that if the Paragon shall be able to get 100% bonus based on the other members, each of the 10 other members will provide for 10% each.
Since Sirrian in this example is a Champion, he can hence only give bonus to one player over him, and that means 10% of +5 Magic = 0.5 Magic.
I do not know if this is the correct way to add up the numbers, but if it is, then if we look at a Herald with also +5 Magic (assuming there are 2 Champions in the guild):
The Herald would provide 0.5 to the Paragon and 0.375 to each of the two Champions, a total of 1.25. So for a Herald the text would read â+5 Magic, +1.25 for higher ranked Guildmatesâ.
Also back to the original example with a Champion. If Sirrians guild had 21 members in stead of 11, then each of the other 20 players would provide 5% to the Paragon, and Magic=5 would only provide â+0.25 to higher ranked Guildmatesâ.
EDIT 1:
I was wrong in the line-through text over. In a guild with 11 members with 1 Paragon and 2 Champions, there are only 8 players to provide for the maximum 75% Bonus a Champion can get. That means each player below the champion provides for 75% / 8 = 9.375 %.
Hence the Herald would provide 0.5 to the Paragon and 0.47 to each of the two Champions, a total of 1.44. So for a Herald the text would read â+5 Magic, +1.44 for higher ranked Guildmatesâ.
EDIT 2: In the numbers over, I also assume that for instance a Paragon can get max 100% bonus independent of the total guild size.
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Read about 100+ comments here about half the threadâŚ
My solution would be to have multiple brackets based on a base bracket of 100, each main bracket is 10 of which the rewards stated by Dev is provided as per everyone gets a good reward and its fun for everyone!.
So out of the top 100 guilds you will have 10 brackets, I would also make sure that the top 10 are separated through the 10 brackets.
While this is âexpectedâ to provide the top 10 a guaranteed win in their bracket, it would make it to difficult to scale the top 10 vs each other and if they do win the top prize the 2nd prize and 3rd prize are highly valuable for other guilds making it not as painful as currently. With the option of a few other points mentioned by people like calculating the battle score by level,battle rating,sentinel level vs their opponent this would give teams the option to win as a strong group of smart players and would generally be heavily competitive. Bringing a quality vs quantity aspect.
What about the other 100s of guilds? well I would say keeping it simply replicating the model and reducing the rewards by 10% of the previous bracket maybe down to 1000 at which it offers a flat rate for all guilds that makes it fun.
As far as this as a business decision, I donât see the current model doing anything for the business the top 10 guild are the only people who profit and the only group of people who have excess resources that they can simply use their guild task rewards to pay for max sentinels. Even as a top 20 guild player we would potentially do that in the right situation and feel no loss so I see the top 10 as even less worrying. So ultimately there is no return for the company.
With my model which is based from comments through the thread my own thoughts and enjoyment of other guild war system in the past. I do see space at the lower end say the middle 200-1000 guilds giving a open player base of 24,000 vs 300 as potentially seeing the need to purchase more resources based on profit. I believe it is clearly stated that the death knight pack is the best and most often only thing recommended to purchase in this game and that is clearly because it offers something unique. Something of real value that you feel the effects of for some time. Like what is offered in daily packs which are also seen as one of the best deals to buy diamonds daily. So basically if guild wars is a combination of them two value points being something unique and offers a tangible value it will get people spending.
Which it does offer, you upgrade your sentinels you get a bonus on your troops throughout the week of the upgrades and ultimately you do 5 battles a day I heard quoted? (there is so much going onâŚ) at which generate rewards that scale up through the week aided by your purchase.
I do also like someone mentioned a way to get mythics the only way I can touch on this is guild seals where you offer X amount of guild seals + gems = mythic. You could do it 2 ways 10% gems 90% seals or 90% gems 10% seals or 80/20 whatever this gives free players the chance to save seals more as gems have already been aimed at taking more out of the game.
I think the big part for me, at least now, is not about the bonuses but about the SCORES. This is the heart of the discussion @Jainus was trying to get at, I think.
As @Strat was saying, it NEEDS to be just like PVP and how it calculates Gold rewards. Each player should have a power level based on team composition, bonuses, and SENTINEL LEVELS.
Letâs look at an example.
Guild A maxes out all sentinels. Player A gets all associated bonuses. After all calculations, Player A has a team score of 9500, just like PVP.
Guild B decides to spend nothing on sentinels. Player B gets no bonuses. After all calculations, Player B has a team score of 8750, just like PVP.
If Player A beats Player B, they get 800 base points. But if Player B beats Player A, they get 1200 base points.
Does that make sense?
@Sirrian, I think if you were to respond to Jainus about his question from 9 hours ago, it would help a lot to clear things up. The way I have outlined it, I think it makes sense. You said you wanted players to have some risk involved, this would make it doubly so. Not only could they be risking gems for easier wins, they could risk forgoing spending those gems to get more pointsâŚ
why not 0.5 to each champion?
how did you get 0.375?
Donât bring me into this mess, 
iâm not a math guy.
Did someone say numbers?
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