Guild Wars, Point-Scoring for Battles, and You!


#864

I realize this was posted 4 months ago, but I am new to the game, and the first week’s comments didn’t address the obvious math formula errors, such as…

Obviously you have confused “min” and “max” between text and formula. But I think the error goes deeper. You get a divide by zero problem unless what you said is i the formula. It should be

MANA_BONUS = MyTotalMana/MIN(4,EnemyTotalMana) * C

Or are you suggesting that the ratio is clamped a 4?

The same goes for the DAMAGE_BONUS. Right?

It would be odd if you didnt do a div by 0 check, and it would be odder still to clamp the ratio to 4. Why 4, unless C% <= 0.25. That might make sense for mana, but for damage, this might be weird, as the opponent could have much less starting health.

Also, you might want to clarify if “friendly fire” is excluded from the damage or not. And even though youb said devouring is excluded, I wonder if freindly devouring (Black Beast) and sacrifice are also excluded.

Finally, the next time you adjust, you might want to multiply the damage ratio above by the ratio of starting armor+life. So,

DAMAGE_BONUS * ( MyTotalStartingHealth / EnemyTotalStartingHealth )

That way, you’re awarding the bonus on which was more efficient at deaming damage relevant to the opponent’s health. Then again if you did this, best include devouring as damage.

As a programmer and engineer, I know how tricky these corners can be.


#865

They fixed the min/max function. It was only wrong for a week.


#866

But it is still very opaque. :frowning:


#867

As far as we know the formulas are indeed capped at four, to avoid the possibility of getting crazy high scoring bonuses out of them (e.g. if you win without taking damage).


#868

Huh. I kind of wish this was in the game. Particularly since the day’s color bonus is on the defending team chart, I thought there was a point bonus for defensive colors that day. I had no clue it was offense-only, and I still only casually poke at GW so I hadn’t been really putting much thought into the points.


#869

if you read closely, itz still wrong


#870

I don’t remember exactly where, but somewhere in this thread or another that was very active around that time, Sirrian confirmed that the MIN function capped the result at 4 if the opponent’s Mana was very low or zero. In other words, there is a divide by zero check included in the function. If the opponent gathers zero Mana, you get a multiplier of 4 for the Mana bonus part of the score calculation. The same is true for the damage bonus calculation.

Edit: I just searched and can’t find it in a post by Sirrian. It may be a conclusion the community reached through experimentation as we were trying to figure out more details related to the new scoring system. Either way, I’m quite confident that the multiplier is now capped at 4 and gets a value of 4 if the denominator in the Mana bonus or Damage bonus ratios is zero.


#871

It’s written here:


#872

If that was the original post, it is suspect, since the written description does not match the formula. It is not clear which was correct.


#873

Yeah the formula was wrong at first (with max) and apparently, devs corrected it only in the formula and forget about the text…


#874

OK, so the post was updated at some point. I can see from citations on other posts this is the case. Your explanation is plausible. But I wonder… was it only the post corrected? Or the code as well. Guess I have to do more reading or just trial and error. But with a good looping team that also silences and webs, it should be relatively easy to see what weights are really in play.


#875

For the first four or so hours, the code appeared to reflect the incorrect formulas in the original version of the first post. This was discovered quickly, and corrected shortly thereafter. So, to the best of my knowledge, the code uses min as it should.


#876

I’m trying to rack my brain around the formula at the top (if it is still up to date) to understand why me and my guildmates have sometimes a 200 or 300 points gap for fights that SEEM similar (I’m starting to collect data to check if it’s a perception bias we have or an actual thing).
Still, I have some questions about the formula. Hope someone has an idea or I’ll have to try and break it down on my own. If those question were already answered, please tell me.

  1. How COLOR_BONUS is calculated ? Weighted flat bonus per unit ?
  2. What is the value BASE_SCORE ?
  3. Any idea or ballpark guesstimates on the weights A%, B%, C%, D%
  4. For the damages (resp. collected mana) does the game use Incoming damage (resp. matched mana) or mitigated damages (resp. total mana,as in mana surge and other bonuses included) ?
  5. For the surviving troops ? do you mean of the original lineup or just having slot 1-4 occupied ?

EDIT : I just read the Q&A with 3.3 coming and the GW scoring overhaul those questions are not so important anymore. But I hope we will have the possibility to have a breakdown of the score to know where I can work to improve it.


#877

Are you counting the unique troop defense bonus too?


#878

As far as I know, these would be the answers to some of your questions:

Yes, the exact value depends on your statue level (up to 50% bonus per color troop at level 100)

This is displayed below each opponent (if I’m not misremembering, goes from 250 points for the first battle to 350 against the paragon)

I would assume the mitigated damage/total mana collected, with all bonuses included, but I’m not aware of whether this has been tested by anyone.

I think it’s been determined that having slots 1-4 occupied is enough, therefore carrying a summoner is still helpful… But the impact of losing a troop is not large, it seems to result in losing ~50 points or so.

I can’t recall reading any reliable estimates on the weighted values of the different modifiers, sorry! Perhaps someone else can offer a bit more detail on this point :slight_smile:


#879

I didn’t think of the value of the opponent as base value. Seems evident enough :slight_smile:
My intuition for damage and mana is that the game counts modified damage and mana too. My intuition as enough been wrong in that game.

I’m gonna try and gather data from my fights in GW to confirm this but creating a log of a battle could be a tedious task, even for a shot fight. So I guess I’ve got my work cut out for me.
If I have anything interesting I’ll post it here, but I could take a bit of time.

Thank you for the answer.


#880

If you really want to do this (remember that the scoring system will only be in place for a few more weeks), perhaps it would be easier to do by checking @Tacet 's videos in YouTube? Many times he’ll show the score after each opponent, counting damage, mana gathered and movements should be doable (even if a bit hard at 4x). Good luck with the project! :slight_smile:


#881

It would take a lot of digging, but I have 37 weeks worth of GW battles that you can check for data. I believe everything since around week 20 is the current GW system.


#882

Tried to do it this morning. Recorded my fights to watch and log them later. Stopped after a few tries because keeping track of what happens during combos is disorienting. Add to that the VFX who sometimes hides what happens behind particles and that I was playing in x4 speed. I was quite lost, to say the least.
I used a bad data gathering method. I’ll retry at a slower speed on the next GW day.

Tried to track the variables with a program who watch the memory too (Important note : not editing, just reading :wink: ). But it looks like some structures are freed after each fights. As a consequence the values you want to track keep jumping around in the chunk of memory allocated to the game. Even if I managed to find one of the values on each fight. I have at least 6 values to find and track on each fight. Turns, Mana, Damage for player and opponent.

So i’ll keep looking for a solution for tracking those values in an easier (automated ?) way.
Worst case scenario I’ll get back to figuring things out when the new scoring is release on 3.3 (next month ?). When the rest of the community starts probing the new scoring system.

Sometimes I wish all games show as much data as EU4 and CK2.


#883

@UKresistance with your permission I would like to “complain” about guild wars scoring and how the devs haven’t shared with us exactly how the scoring works. Despite their reasoning for not revealing it no longer being relevant.
May I proceed kind sir?