Greetings from a disgruntled non "gambler"


#1

Greetings from a disgruntled non “gambler” a.k.a Why I will never spend money on Gems of War …

This story begins on Monday, at the start of another Gems of War week (it really begins almost three years ago … more about that later) with the release of a new legendary troop, Medea. I’d saved up my event keys and opened them with some hope that I’d get the troop.

100 event keys later … no Medea (I persist because I need this troop to get Karakoth to 9 stars)
200 event keys later … no Medea (my store is tapped out and I’m using glory to buy more)
300 event keys later … no Medea (I’ve halved my glory now, from around 40,000 at week start)

I start buying event keys in threes and opening them … after doing this many times (and i’ve lost track of how many keys I’ve opened by now) I finally get Medea. Along the way I also pop 4 Aboraths (I already had 1).

I’ve watched players streaming opening their chests and I’ve never seen anyone need that many event keys to get a legendary troop.

I know what people will say - you just had a bad luck week, it happens. And that might be true, but my ‘bad luck’ is perpetual as this isn’t the first time I’ve struggled to get troops - it’s a recurring theme in my experience after almost three years playing Gems of War. I am level 1153 and I play pretty much every day.

Some examples …

I have never dropped a random mythic troop from gem or glory chests - and over three years I have opened tens of thousands of them. I got Pharos Ra from event keys (in a similar splurge of event keys as described above) the last time Khetar was the kingdom, and I forged Infernus in the sole forge recently. (in fairness I should say that I did get Arachnaean Weaver recently and I have crafted Xathenos for the trophy - but since they are both weak troops I’m not counting them)

This week I ascended my first legendary card to mythic through having 6 copies … my drop rate on legendary troops is woeful if it’s taken me 3 years to get enough copies of just one of them to ascend it.

There are still legends I haven’t dropped, like Gorgotha, Hydra, and Venoxia … and I only just got Korvash, Infernal King, and Glitterclaw in the last couple of months.

And so to the punchline, if you will … I am a gems of war non gambler because it is gambling to spend real money buying keys in the hopes of getting the best troops, and I will never spend money on the game while every chest opening in my experience is such a massive disappointment.

Perhaps a review of the drop rates and the application of statistics and probability within the game is warranted?


#2

Looks like you don’t want to accept the only answer there is. It is all about luck, or more specifically, math or chance. Sadly, that’s all it chalks down to. If it’s taken you three years to ascend a troops to mythic, you are either not playing as frequently as most other players, or you are in a guild that doesn’t acquire a large amount of keys from tasks.

I felt your frustration for a little while, but I changed guilds and went from ZERO mythics to now 7 (I crafted two of those). My point is that, while it’s true that the chances of getting specific rarity troops is quite varied and sometimes seemingly random, there ARE a few things you can try to do on your end to influence those odds in your favor.

Aside from that, you’ve merely fallen prey to the bad luck of Gacha games. In times where it seems that your odds are impossible, we look to any answer other than the bad one, even if it’s true. Sadly, your answer is simply bad luck.

If the post is to let off some steam, I understand you, buddy, and I hope things work out a little better in the future. But, if you’re post is for the purpose of finding a different answer other than bad luck, then you’ll not find it - it’s the name of the game.


#3

As you yourself have said, it is a run of poor luck. I’m sorry to hear about your frustration.

Gems of War is a game that employs RNG. As such, you won’t always get the drops you are searching for. Every player has the same chances to drop troops, whether they are mythic or otherwise. For every streamer you’ve watched open chests, there is a player with the same, or worse, luck.

As the game has grown we introduced features such as the sole forge so that specific troops can be targeted. Orbs can also ascend troops if you are having trouble dropping enough copies to do so.

Players are completely at liberty to decide if they want to invest in Gems of War. Some prefer to purchase gems, others packs that guarantee a Legendary or Mythic drop. However, we are passionate about making Gems of War a game that can be played with all of its content accessible without making a purchase. This is also why we don’t have an energy system, or a cooldown on matches.

(PS, in all fariness the Arachnaean Weaver does count as a mythic drop, by virtue of it being a mythic troop that dropped for you.)


#4

Hey Arcemius - thanks for your reply. Yeah, I know the short answer is that it’s bad luck, accept it, and I have for the most part - just this past week it really struck me how unsatisfying it is opening chests. I guess I’m saying if the drop rates were higher then perhaps my luck would improve :slight_smile:

You’re right that being in a top guild helps - my guild completes up to task 7 on everything every week but not beyond that usually so I don’t get the benefit of legendary tasks; we get to level 4 on seals but no higher and I max out my seals every week. So it’s not great but it’s still a lot of resources every week. I play every day, do all my daily tasks and dungeons, as well as maps for resources and explore for traits etc. and PVP to tier 1 every week as well … I have all my kingdoms to level 10, all at least five stars (many higher) and four to 9 stars which is as much as I can do with the troops and resources I have. So while I’m not getting as many keys and rewards as the top guild players, it is still a decent amount that I’m opening on a regular basis.

My post was part letting off steam but also part pointing out to the game developer that if they want people to spend money in the game they need to convince gamers that doing so will be worth it. With the current drop rates, and coloured by my experiences, I don’t think it’s worth it.


#5

My advice, then, would definitely be to join a higher earning guild. I would save any guild seals until you find a guild that can complete 40k guild chests regularly. Also, this game is the Dev’s livelihoods, so I think it goes without saying that they would want players to support them by making purchases, but they also don’t want the game to be ruined by Pay-to-Win features. I’m more likely to spend money on a game where we ALL have the same chance of getting something good or not, than the person who will FLAT OUT be better than me by spending even MORE money. It’s good to vent, though. That’s what the forums is for - to speak your mind.


#6

Thanks Saltypatra

As someone who’s played the game without purchasing anything I wholeheartedly approve that none of the content is locked away for paying customers only nor restricted in terms of game time or number of daily matches - so a big thumbs up for that. I use the orbs when I get them and the sole forge too, although the resources needed to craft mythics is pretty high so that’s a long patience game … I’ve been in it for almost three years so persistence isn’t a problem.

I’m curious about the use of random number generation within the game - is it applied like sampling with replacement or is it based on quota sampling, such that as the week progresses, the relative probability of dropping a featured troop for example, diminishes?

Re Arachnean Weaver, okay, I concede that one :smiley:

Cheers


#7

Me and a few others have tried it and seems like most of the things are more or less random. Excluding some revival issues with TDS which have been indirectly patched to a playable extent.

The main issue with GoW is that developers have no limit on rare events. And rare means something really rare like 1 in a million or 1 in 10 million. Also, note that pRNG used by GoW is prone to considerable streaking. It is still random according to conventional randomness test. Sometimes some things apparently interact with each other in a way that is hard to anticipate which makes these particular things seem like non-random.

So, as it happens, you may encounter some extremely rare events which human perception considers normally impossible. Due to steakiness of pRNG, frequency of these extremely rare events can be higher than your perception is anticipating.

Most statistical approaches are centered around normal human perception that put a hard limit on rare events at 95% or 99% significance level. GoW operates on somewhat different scale. One can start with mythic drops from glory chests which are already outside of conventional statistical significance levels. And list continues on and on.


#8

Just a quick question. Salty says there isn’t an energy system.

What, if not that, are seals? (Tower, Boss, Class etc) The full content isn’t available without significat investment of Gems for little reward.


#9

I think you are actually referring to sigils. You can get tons of them from Valeraven drops that will allow you to continue playing. How much you want to play is, of course, totally up to you.


#10

Sigils, yes I’d forgotten the name, thank you.

How much I want to play, is limited by the amount of sigils. Thus putting a wall in place that restricts me from playing as much as I would like. Unless I spend a lot of Gems for things that are next useless everywhere else for now and rewards that feel like an insult for the effort and resources spent.


#11

I’m curious – if the rewards feel like an insult for the resources spent, then why would you want to spend them in the first place? The energy system is in place (which I agree with), but if the compelling rewards are obtainable via energy-free means (like PvP) then why does this matter?


#12

Invasion and Raid weeks. Participation in a top guild is necessary to help everyone, especially if there is a quota in place. I don’t mind that. Participation is fun, I made 1K Trophies this week and 2M Gold contributed for now. But spending nigh on 700-1000 Gems to get the sigils necessary in addition to the free raven sigils is just massive greed on the publishers part. For a few Orbs to help us get minutely closer to crafting a troop that is pretty weak to begin with.


#13

You can get, more or less, this weekly and for free in the game right now. But that also requires some time invested collecting tributes, finishing the guild tasks (your guild certainly finishes them all), completing the “Snotstones” events and daily tasks (with some degree of luck for the better tasks) and maybe using a few Treasure Maps and some Class events also adding up some gems. But on the other hand you could just keep your gems for other uses, specially if the rewards are not great for your tastes.

The devs certainly tried to balance things out. What you call “greed” is nothing more than a chance to make such events profitable if people who can’t/don’t want to do all the things i listed and would rather put a few dollars on the devs “tips jar”. Compared to any other F2P game this is one of the most generous handing out premium currency.


#14

Actually, the guild events including invasion and raid are quite balanced in terms of gem costs. It is very much possible to finish them (get to 144 tower level in invasion and close all Zuul portals) using whatever gems you get through normal means including tribute and guild tasks. Pet events really don’t need anything and hero events need a handful of gems. The only exception is bounty which might require more substantial investment or might not, heavily depending on specifics of the event.

Now, of course, you don’t want to spend these gems and would like instead to use them for keys to get that elusive monthly mythic. But it is up to you. Personally, I don’t think there is any problem with these events or with amount of gems available as freebies.


#16

700-1000 gems for sigils “necessary” seems off. I wanted to set a fair participation level for raid/invasion similar to GW. Long story short, spending 100 gems in an event gives enough sigils to reach the all rewards, nevermind minimums. Harder in raids, much easier in invasions. Usually there will be others spending much more than that to get weapons and legendary ingots, that brings the bar even lower for those who struggle that week.

Gems wise guild tasks alone give 390/week (iirc), then there are daily tasks, hourly kingdom rewards, events, etc