Devs, Devs, Devs 🤦

[awryan]

@Fleg

Let me ask you, if guild wars didn’t exist would you still be asking for a nerf?

Of course not. There’s no balance issues outside of GW with it. (Currently)

[Fleg]

So then why ask for nerf? Even IF (and I stress IF) it was a pita to face in GW it would be the same for every guild and no different from many other troops and weapons in GW that are tough to face. It would be a different story if it was like L&D which is a plague in pvp and on certain teams has no good counter.

Also, how often do we get a troop that’s actually decent and maybe even join the select few in regular use? Once in a blue moon. I really don’t understand why you would want this nerfed.

[awryan]

@Fleg

So then why ask for nerf? Even IF (and I stress IF) it was a pita to face in GW it would be the same for every guild and no different from many other troops and weapons in GW that are tough to face. It would be a different story if it was like L&D which is a plague in pvp and on certain teams has no good counter.

Also, how often do we get a troop that’s actually decent and maybe even join the select few in regular use? Once in a blue moon. I really don’t understand why you would want this nerfed.

Because it doesn’t make any sense balance wise. There’s no other troop in the game that can spawn gems, do AOE, refuel it’s self and get an extra turn. (Rope dart is a weapon not a troop).
Besides the devs, is anyone honestly saying that it isn’t OP? Or you just don’t want it changed.
It’s like how quickly everyone forgets the huge pain in the rear that goblins were for a bit. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
I’ll wait though to see who can/will figure out the best color day to contend against this and just have everyone hate life facing it. Cause that’s fun… So I already explained why the “its the same unfairness” for everyone argument is weak at best. Feel free to scroll up to see it. But I can use the same exact argument about LD. Everyone hates it, so it doesn’t need to be changed.
Just because it’s not plagueing PvP now, doesn’t mean that can’t easily change a month or two from now.
But hey…I warned y’all. So if I’m the only worried about balance in the game and the ability to see how easily something is OP then so be it. I look forward to Necroing this when/if it becomes an issue down the road. I made the mistake of thinking OP meant Over Powered… When actuality it means Okay (if) Popular. My mistake.

[PeperandSalt]

I just want to say Let a week and this GW pass thru then make your analysis

[Voq]

Can make him Empowered? We’re missing a green one right?

[TheIdleOne]

@awryan

I look forward to Necroing this when/if it becomes an issue down the road.

How’s Essence of Evil doing?

[KYLENATOR001]

I think the biggest think holding back Row is the lack of empowered converters that make green, and the abundance of ones that convert green into another color. Other than brown still missing some decent cleansers, it’s more of an annoyance. Red, yellow, purple we have Voice, and green and blue have both mercy and apothecary. Brown pretty much is just diviner, which isn’t even guaranteed.

[awryan]

@TheIdleOne

How’s Essence of Evil doing?

Better once more bless troops were introduced and impervious protected it a little bit.

[bobbydvt247]

I was on the nerf train initially after seeing the loop in action as part of some OP delve offense teams. After giving it some thought and pounding this troop outside of delves I’ve def changed my mind.

First off a lot of people using it for delves are abusing the potions for its success so we can take those teams with a grain.

Second, GW is a garbage weekly event, with garbage rewards for anyone outside the top brackets. So if it ends up being annoying to you for the whole week somehow(it won’t) I will honestly be glad, cause 99% of the player base probably doesn’t care about how this one completly countered troop does against your precious GW team.

Third, it’s an easy troop to defeat in pvp and haven’t seen this troop as any sort of threat. Even if someone puts together an amazing meta team that somehow does loop, how is that any different from YG/Titania or Rope dart teams? Talk about self loopers. Life and Death is about all we agree on.

Fourth, you can see who you are facing in GW and can build a team to defeat it. Not just with frostmage but troops like queen Mab or borealis if you are that threatened by it.

Fifth, there is no comparison to this troop and DE. DE had almost zero counters, this troop has soo many. I’d be far more afraid of other OP defenses than something with this troop. All goblin teams are countered with prep.

[Slypenslyde]

@bobbydvt247

Second, GW is a garbage weekly event, with garbage rewards for anyone outside the top brackets. So if it ends up being annoying to you for the whole week somehow(it won’t) I will honestly be glad, cause 99% of the player base probably doesn’t care about how this one completly countered troop does against your precious GW team.

Haha this is the best description of GW I’ve seen in ages.

I don’t know what you’re going on about DE though. If that still means “Dragon’s Eye” I feel like a strong fart’s been a fairly effective counter since the nerf, so as long as you have a troop with more power than that you’re good.

[Magnusimus]

I think s/he meant “had” but mistyped “has”

Old DE had very few counters, if any

[bobbydvt247]

I was referencing pre-nerfed dragons eye of course. Not the current dragons eye. It was brought up as a comparison early in the thread and I thought it was ridiculous to bring up a weapon that actually had reason to be nerfed vs. this troop. Haha and I’m a he as well. Pronoun wars>Guild Wars

[awryan]

Yep… I’m 100% wrong.
Any troop that can loop to affinity is definitely not OP.
I see the light now. Thanks ladies and gents.

Amanithrax Nightmare Grind 💯 Faction Team

[Fleg]

Please tell me when you think you’ll have to face 4 empowered King Gobtruffles? Never is the answer. And in GW you’ll only face 1.

Unless you’re saying it’s too strong as an attack troop now? I don’t recall anyone ever asking for a nerf on these forums because a troop is too good in attack. Only when it’s a grief in defense have I ever seen “please nerf” threads.

[awryan]

@Fleg

Please tell me when you think you’ll have to face 4 empowered King Gobtruffles? Never is the answer. And in GW you’ll only face 1.

Unless you’re saying it’s too strong as an attack troop now?

I’m not saying anything. Just posted the video for folks to decide their own opinions for themselves.

[Fleg]

I’ll take that as a yes. In which case I would say why on earth would you want a great attack troop nerfed? Aren’t you the one I’ve seen many times commenting on how lackluster a new troop is? We finally get a good one and you want it nerfed.

[awryan]

@Fleg

I’ll take that as a yes. In which case I would say why on earth would you want a great attack troop nerfed? Aren’t you the one I’ve seen many times commenting on how lackluster a new troop is? We finally get a good one and you want it nerfed.

Well it wasn’t a yes. So I guess your questions were predetermined regardless of my response.
I’ve made my thoughts on the troop quite clear already. No need to rehash it.

[AMT]

Surely a non-misleading video would include zero potions?

[bobbydvt247]

Yeah, that video clearly does nothing in terms of proving anything other than that troop is great with potions. We already have a lot of self looping troops that are far more powerful and without potions I may add. You’re so far off the mark on this one you. I did mang with 3 ysabelle in delves this week and it was just as OP and fast. Gonna nerf Ysabelle now? No, because nerfing a troop or team that’s almost solely OP because of potions is ridiculous.

The troop is good and in fact I’ll give you great in terms of looping. But to say it should be nerfed because of an event use in offense without any justification or proof its OP outside of it, is certainly mind boggling. With all the annoying pvp defenses, you’d think having a good offensive troop would be welcome.

[Slypenslyde]

People aren’t questioning the worry, they are questioning the data.

Just like with old DE and so on, we have to consider how the weapon plays on offense vs. how it plays on defense, both in and out of scaling contexts. We tend to call for nerfs the strongest when a “defense with no scaling” context is powerful. In short:

• We know that on offense, with potions and stat boosts, the troop is pretty darn strong. We win more matches when that’s true so we don’t care so much. It’s also notable that there are LOTS of things broken in this scenario.
• We know that vs. a very scaled defense, this is an oppressive troop if your counters don’t get online fast enough. I think people feel “it’s as bad as any other goblin” in this scenario.
• People who have tested with no potions/boosts don’t feel the troop is as powerful as other choices, and no contrary evidence exists.
• People who have tested with no potions/boosts don’t feel the troop performs as expected on defense, and no contrary evidence exists.

Also:

• A single video of its best luck isn’t a good data set. It takes a lot of matches. To some extent, more time has to pass to allow people to figure out how often its “good luck” happens. If you can set up the best offense vs. your best theoretical defense and demonstrate you lose 50% or more, the troop is scary broken. But if you’re winning at 75% or better, I think that is well within the error bars of “normal luck vs. Goblins”.

I don’t like Goblins period. I feel like “as bad as any other Goblin” is a good reason to not release a troop. But my opinion is harsher than everyone else’s.