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Change Slayer, Warden, Priest to be like Corsair

Disclaimer: I don’t use Runepriest for anything, so I may be overlooking nifty uses of the current third trait (Dwarves get +2 life/attack on 4+ matches)

Given that 4.8 comes with a change to Sunspear class to make it more like Corsair (+2 blue on blue matches), it only makes sense to consider where the yellow, brown, and green versions should be. (Purple is Archmagus, if you forgot like I did.)

Warden is a natural fit for green Corsair. I’m pretty sure nobody—like, really actually nobody—would honestly complain if the current third trait (all allies gain 5 armor. once.) were replaced with +2 green on green matches.

As for Runepriest, it’s more a thing of “we gotta squeeze this in somewhere”. I guess it could work on the Slayer class also, because that class’s third trait is also kind of lackluster.

I’m open to suggestions about which class should be yellow Corsair.

Edit: the first few replies have convinced me that Slayer is a better fit than Runepriest, and that giving Priest the Corsair treatment opens up the second trait slot for something else nice.

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I’d probably say Priest (since the 3rd trait isn’t overly exciting) and turn the 2nd trait into Spell Block or Fast. Bonus points if they turn the 1st trait into Holy Armor. cuz you know, Priest.

Knight’s 3rd trait is even worse, but… I don’t think I’d ever use the Knight class even with a Yellow Corsair effect.

3 Likes

I was under the impression that Corsair was a niche class to say the least. Why would we want other classes imitating it ?

Sorry to be the contrarian. I prefer +10 damage on Rowanne to what amounts to an additional banner I don’t care for because mana isn’t an issue for the teams I use warden with.

Disagree on Runepriest. While not the greatest setup in the world, it has great synergy with Stonehammer. Its a rather slow burn trying to use it as a solo dwarf skull bulldozer for a skull spam team, but thats mostly because it doesn’t have Hunt. Still, there are applications of this trait, theres synergy, and there are far worse traits (and kits) that should be addressed.

Warden with +2 green would be pretty dang good, considering the class is viable with an essentially useless trait. Don’t have any objections there.

Of those with objectively “useless” traits, the ones that spring to mind are Necromancer and Knight immediately before Warden (with the noted Rowanne synergy, albiet very limited that this would factor into the specific break point, it was never really thematic). For “underpowered and don’t really contribute to their identity”, the list is a lot longer, for which I’d include: Sorcerer, Slayer, Priest (thematically fitting, just super weak for practical reasons), Oracle (has a really bad trigger condition for such a small boost, but the trees for this class are also not very practical for this), Heirophant (trigger chance and condition is far too sparse for random effects), Diabloist (summoned troop is really bad and the summon chance is far too low for the condition), and Barbarian (yes, this brand new class has a trait that doesn’t fit its trees at all and is under powered compared to one of the first class traits). The upcoming class for Sin of Maraj has a death mark match trait currently slated… at 25%, which is just totally random and doesn’t fit in with any of the other tools, so while the trait itself probably isn’t totally useless, thats another one I hope gets changed before release because its just kind of haphazardly tossed on there.

Most classes problems are that they lack one of the trees or traits that brings some kind of essential tool as a starting point - half mana, skull resistance, rock solid/fortitude, lightning strike, stealthy, root trap, snap freeze+deluge+insulated, banishment, fireblade, and purification a being some of the more singular ones you can work with even if they don’t really have any other tools to speak of on the class, especially if you have a couple in places where you can mix and match. Even starting storms are getting more and more marginalized as time goes on and more troops get this ability farmed out to them. The worst trees right now, in my opinion, are Wind and Morale, having pretty much no top picks in the entire lineup unless your other trees have really weak options and are almost nearly a wasted tree slot. Others are really weak unless paired with something where they can pick one or two specific support abilities with synergy, like Chaos, Light, Death, Knowledge (especially if you have a better level 70 pick) and probably others. If we want even sort of balanced and usable classes, we can’t have classes with bad traits that stack all the “only good as a very specific niche support pick” trees on them, and there should be some combination of things that add up to one being picked over another if you have access to the same level of tools (other than “because I need to level this one right now”).

If Priest were to get the +2 yellow, its current innate yellow link would probably better suited to be a spell armor type trait than a physical armor type trait. Knight should have had a skull resistance trait from the start. I previously said it would have make sense for Knight to have +2 Armor to all Knights every turn, but I’m currently thinking even that is really underpowered. Maybe give Knight a trait for barrier when matching yellow gems or something. Or one of them one, one of them the other. Knight is technically a blue class, but its only practical application currently is with yellow. Or Knight could just have an armor match trait for all allies or something.

I’d say Diabolist is probably the best candidate for the +2 red mana link except that it actually uses Purple mana as a primary mana color. I mean, it doesn’t fit the name of the trait, but I hope that doesn’t stop them. They kinda softballed this probably because of concerns about what happened with Orbweaver when the stars aligned for the right synergy, probably without realizing the biggest thing about Orbweaver even under perfect conditions is that it summons when its not your turn and has stealthy, two key pieces that will never line up for this class.

For the brown match trait, yeah, Slayer is an option, considering its trait still has no practical application in game, so its not too late to rework it without irritating everyone. This one has other problems, namely the disparate trees, and absolutely no brown synergy. However, I’m not sure they’d want to actually put the Stone tree with a +2 brown link, and I’m not sure I’d want it on some random class that isn’t even sure at what it wants to do. I’d actually rather see this go on Barbarian so I could make better practical use of the Forest and Storms synergy.

Oh, I like to think of Archmagus as Purple Frostmage without Freeze (or freeze resistance). I do actually factor in the double purple link (if my primary spell chain needs to open with purple) but having arcane (the tree, for half mana) and arcane (the trait, for magic ramping) actually factors into that about as much. The classes are very similar otherwise - both have Arcane (talent and tree) and Storms, so its down to Water versus Chaos its down to Snap Freeze/Insulated/Deluge and 25% freeze on cast versus steal 1 life match trait and disease match trait (which you then have to pick over spell resistance) so Frostmage usually wins out unless really need to boost that fast purple start (or, far more likely, you are just leveling classes). But thats enough to set it apart, really. Still don’t think Archmagus is that bad because Arcane and Storms happen to be very usable trees and the +2 purple link can be set up to have synergy. It has a complete kit (with Chaos kind of tacked on for whatever reason), unlike a lot of the other classes.

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Because as of the patch notes for 4.8, there is apparently a design decision being made to make other classes more like Corsair. This thread is a response to that.

:open_mouth:

As an aside, I consider Warden to be the optimal low level Skeleton Key companion class - green storm start, magic bonus on brown, barriers on ally deaths. Then probably skull spam with Forest Guardian tossed in there somewhere. A +2 green link would actually mean a single match surge start is possible on green without a separate accelerator, which is a significant improvement for both those teams. I’ve run it with speed Rowanne setups (with no armor buffers) as well, but in that case, unless I’m right at the break point for lethal, that extra 5 armor doesn’t really mean anything - the general usage is any green storm (almost nothing survives with specifically < 10 health unless they are spell armored, in which case you need significantly more damage to finish them off because of the way the interaction works). One of those green storm starting classes, Archer, gets +2 armor to the team for just those two troops being from the same kingdom (with a level 1 pet and level 10 kingdom), closing that gap even further, possibly even more if the other kingdom upgrades are relevant.

I’m aware of that, I just think it is terrible. As far as I can tell very few people use Corsair for anything. Archmagus is used a bit more because it is essentially a Frostmage and many players already have FM at level 100 so AM is workable when you don’t need the freezes.
My point is that in a game where you can get 40+ mana on turn 1 by firing off a converter, those “banner” traits are not very good.

I actually use Corsair… in the double Cedric skeleton key variant, where I never actually use the trait, but hes the worst light fingered class so little other practical applications. Hes also not totally unusable in skull spam setups because he has Hunt… except we aren’t exactly overflowing with blue skull generators (or any true double converters). A half mana blue using self looping double converter would quickly bring relevance to having a +2 blue link (especially if it is also freeze immune), edging it out over generally more popular picks because it has Hunt and that slight amount blue acceleration and freeze immunity. Water tree, Cunning tree, and +2 blue link all have practical applications, theres just so very little overlap that any one situation currently has a better option for any of the given setups, including just accelerating blue. Wind tree is pretty much a dud, though.

Point is, it can carve out a niche under the right conditions. It just doesn’t really do so now, which is why it is generally regarded as “bad” rather than “subpar” to “mediocre”.

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The only place I use corsair is in explore with cedric and skeleton key. That’s purely because of light finger tree perk and the fact that I’ve already maxed thief. It’s still vulnerable because it doesn’t have stealth. As soon as I max it I won’t be using it again.

EDIT.
haha @Mithran. You were typing at the same time as I was.

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This is a good start, but it would be easier to simply change ALL classes 3rd trait to give +2 bonus mana to whatever color the class weapon is. This would make all the classes more in line with corsair.

2 Likes

well… shouldn’t they take the storm trait away from stormcaller and just make it the +2 yellow class??? I really hope that the new mythic for suncrest coming up has as its third trait “summon a firestorm at the beginning of your turn” cuz yea… not happy with the change

Quite the opposite, it requires a storm (any) to get the most out of it’s spell. But it’s not very good anyway.

Slayer’s 3rd trait is there for some synergy with his crappy Class weapon.

No do not change classes to be like corsair that’s a weak class.
Should change corsair and other weak classes to have useful third traits.

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I’d be so on board with this. I actually decided not to fully trait my Diabolist, and the whole, “diablo”/demons image from the Burning Lands just makes me think of… you know, fire. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: