True, but its also annoying to PLAY.
2 Likes
Exactly why I don’t enjoy using Legendaries at all!
I’ve experienced that too… in concept, @Archenassa you are right, but in practice that’s costing a lot of gold (to some players) and a lot of time and irritation (to others, including me…)
Sorry for saying this… but this game isn’t fun anymore.
I’m sorry you feel that way, I’ve been having more fun then I have in a looong time with it. Could you please elaborate a bit and describe WHY you think it’s not fun any more? Comments like this really add nothing to the discussion.
Yeah but remember, I don’t do invades that much… 
For me, the game has never been so much fun, so aside from some minor bugs, I’m actually having a blast.
It doesn’t make sense.
As you know, we all have at least more than 140 troops. but all I see is, everyone use the same decks. So where is the fun?
I like to playing with strategy, not just making the whole board GREEN.
No need to thinking hard… just press CAST and you’ll see all green.
Is that you called FUN?
That was already like that before the update, and the number one reason I dislike the invading / defending part of the game. If anything, the few invades I did after the patch showed me more diversity. So yeah, I am having fun, and more than before.
I’ve been having some good luck with abhorath, shadow hunter, valkyrie, and hero w/bear totem. Blue/Yellow banner.
Abhorath can totally reset the board and restore his own tankiness, shadow hunter turns their life bonuses against them, valkyrie fills everyone and can nuke greens if necessary, and bear totem can usually finish off what shadow hunter wounds + trashing greens.
Main weakness though is against the f****** 15 attack webspinner teams. If they get 2 skull matches early on and take out abhorath I just close out, swear I’m never playing the game again, then load it back up.
The thing that puzzles me is why people complain specifically about WebSpinner (and to a lesser extent Venoxia) these days, when the same Loop Turn Syndrome is just as real for countless other troops and/or line-ups. Are people only angry at it when it’s Green? 
For instance, I’ve just faced a team of Jarl, Alchemist, Banshee + Eternal Flame; Jarl had a lucky start, and from there it was all Yellow and Red until the bitter end. You seldom hear anyone complain about Jarl, though.
Games can be dragged on for even more ages by any classic farming line-up (any combination of Alchemist, Banshee, Valkyrie, Acolyte, Rock Worm, Goblin Shaman, Finlay, Templar, Tyri, Green Seer etc. etc.) or any line-up which includes Celestasia and/or Prismatic Orb, too. And there’s A LOT of both archetypes out there, probably many more than WebSpinner and/or Venoxia teams. No one complains about that, and more importantly, no one is actively crying wolf and demanding any troop with “Transform all” or “Remove all” in their spell text be nerfed…
Also, my semi old-school Goblin Team is wrecking face in this new patch, fairly much by spamming Green and extra turns, just like Goblin Team always did (and like WebSpinner & Venoxia do). Where are the “nerf the goblins! it’s not fun to play against” threads?
Oh, and how could I forget Sheggra?!! (and, to a lesser extent, Keeper of Souls). Sheggra is as OP as ever, and she will still obliterate you if the AI gets a good start, more often than not. She had a soft nerf a while back, and the chain-skull bug fix indirectly moved her out of God mode, but with the amount of enabling troops and weapons out there to boost her, her days of routine board annihilation are far from over.
I swear, people seem to focus their frustration from bad beats against one specific troop at a time. It used to be the Silencer, until he eventually got nerfed into oblivion. These days, it’s the WebSpinner, but I assure you, folks, you’ll be complaining about another troop shortly after WS gets nerfed. Not a new one with a new specific combo, either; just the one you’ll see more often next.
I really don’t think nerfing this or that troop is a good solution, because this isn’t so much a problem as it is a difficulty to accept bad beats. There will always be strong wombo combos and/or line-up archetypes that are annoying to play against (in some situations). I’m sure we all faced a good old “Armor Up!” line-up with Templar, WrenchMaster 5000 and Carnex without packing True Damage. ^^
2 Likes
I’ll reiterate. My issue isn’t with the unit per se, it’s with the frequency I see defenses of multiple copies. Those other combos you mentioned I rarely see. I see multi-ws/ven all the time. Hence the reason a good fix is not allowing team bonuses to increase with duplicate units.
1 Like
I do see a specific balance issue currently with Webspinner, which is known and acknowledged by the devs, and the 107 changes potentially made worse, not better.
There’s another thread I recently started on this same debate where we compare Webspinner to other looping troops. Sorry, am writing on iPad so struggling to link to it (the title was Webspinner question).
My judgement on this is Webspinner crosses a line into being a bit broken. Venoxia / Celestasia / Jarl are similar but not so far over the line. It’s my view, obviously - and I’m not the only would-be expert around here - but I’ve been designing RPGs and games for 25 years, and have a Masters in maths and combinatorics, so I like to feel I know what I’m talking about.
There’s is an observation bias factor, as you and @Archenassa rightly point out. It’s the current combination of slightly broken mechanic with ubiquitous appearance (spite or cleverness on other players’ parts, you choose) that is upsetting people at the moment. I’ve enough gold/resources to just avoid the most broken battles, but for many, the cost in gold and hassle will be spoiling the game.
Webspinner isn’t the only case needing some fine-tuning, but it is the current stand-out one. Goblins should be on the list too. Silent One rightly was top before - it was both mechanically strong and ubiquitous which took fun and variety out of the game. I think the solution to that one works, though less happy about the nerf to its stats.
There’ve always been turn loop combos of troops, and other frustrating enemy tricks, but the AI rarely uses these well. Sheggra is strong but unreliable and takes skill to use well, which again is hit or miss for the AI. Yes it will often wipe out your first troop, two with bad luck, but typically leaves lots of attacks available in response, or occasionally misfires and hands you an easy win.
I do feel the devs should address imbalances that allow the AI to mindlessly spam one move at us. The proposed change (stopping team bonuses arising from duplicate troops) will help - or at least help us see if the coding fix for gem spammers (supposed to drop the chance of 4 matches) works enough. Webspinner can still be a tough foe but let’s not see 3-4 of them so often on defence please (and that same change will address some Venoxia/Celestasia issues).
We all have our own interpretation of these things, and it’s coloured by our experience (as @Archenassa has very lucidly shared) - I’d like to always see changes to address (1) mechanical or conceptual flaws that cross a (hard to define) line into being unfair and (2) common player concerns on things that don’t feel fun.
Thanks to anyone that had the patience to read all that.
@Sirrian and team, over to you guys as the real experts.
1 Like
I’m % behind LM on this one, but you already know my stance on the subject. 
Also I agree, Silencer went from being my absolute favourite troop at the time, to being one I have never ever used again. The hatred against him was completely idiotic, and the nerf absolutely killed him. Oh well…
I never had a problem with the silent one before his nerf, and he became so barely barely used it was sad.
Great post @jainus you summed it up perfectly!
Jarl loops are extremely rare, but just as annoying if they happen. You’re insane if you think this is some mass contempt for a specific color of gem.
As for goblin teams, color changers, etc: Nobody likes losing, but they reeeeeally hate losing when given literally no chance to win. At least you get to take some turns against the aforementioned teams.
This isn’t that difficult to understand.
1 Like
Jarls are not rare at all, I have to fight against them as much as Webspinner, and they usually come in 2 or 3.
Jarl doesn’t get two magic bonuses for having four of him like Venoxia and Webspinner do, but he does get two attack bonuses for +6 attack. A maxed out Jarl team will have 19 attack each, making it so when he breaks from his chain to match a skull, it is still going to hurt. He also gets a bit more life.
Could go the Hearthstone route (team is clearly influenced) and limit legendary troops to 1 per team.
2 Likes
Hell no to that. I really do not like it one bit when a game forces me to play a specific way. My current team does not have a single legendary, yet the next one might consist of 4. I love being free in my options. If I can’t play my way, I just don’t see the point.