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A Buff to Gloom Leaf, Please

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#1

Obviously this discussion has being going on for quite a while now, but it’s time to put an idea forward for these skull damage teams. To fight fire with fire we need to have more troops with skull reflect damage. Enough with skull damage reduction.

Now I know Gloom Leaf is a legendary we have with reflect damage, but he has fallen off. He is just not that strong anymore. We need him to either gain a buff, or create more troops with this mechanic. These skull damage teams are so powerful that their use needs a punishment. Right now it’s just a free for all. With more skull reflect mechanics, skull damage teams risk killing their own troops.

So the first move to make is obviously nerfing instead of creating new troops. This I feel isn’t going to happen. Courage is a guardian, and most of the guardians are widely considered OP. BD we know might not be able to be fixed. That’s cool. Don’t fix them. Let’s fight fire with fire.

Also before anyone even suggests these troops would be OP, imo I don’t think so. They are still vulnerable to any other damage. Gloom Leaf is a prime example of this. Even with a buff he wouldn’t be an “overly” strong troop. Let’s add mechanics to fight this. Let’s add some “tanks” that can dish the damage back out.

Also does anyone know how many troops we actually have with skull reflect damage? I know it can’t be many.

8 Likes
#2

Like I said above, this is not a request for a nerf like everyone and their cousin have asked for. I’m also not saying these troops are not beatable, they are. But their power is so much that they at least warrant a true counter, which I feel we lack. There are some good counters out there don’t get me wrong, but only situational counters on weaker troops. I’m thinking a troop like Gorgotha, but reflect instead of deflect. A true tank/mana generator.

I put this in to go ahead and cut off all these people that want them nerfed. I think at this point it’s a pipe dream.

#3

Gloom Leaf: Steal [Magic] Armor and 2 Attack from all enemies.

i think it its chaged to something like:

Steal [Magic/3] Life and steal 2 Attack from all enemies.

it would already get enough of buff to withstand?
or Magic/2 if 1/3 is not enough

or change the reflect mechanism to actually avoid 1/2 of damage, so taking 1/2 damage and sending the remainign 1/2 of damage back to the attacker? (i havent played gloom leaf so im not sure)

2 Likes
#4

Yeah Gloom Leaf currently takes half the damage and sends the other half back. I think that’s not good enough. Maybe 75/25 just like Gorgotha. IMO

Whatever the tank is, it needs to survive a longer amount of time. It can’t do that if it takes 50% damage. Unless they really buff his health.

Not anything close to invincible, but it should at least be able to take 3-4 hits for it to be viable.

We want it to actually be able to help destroy the enemy team with their own skull damage.

It could also work as you suggested which is it doesn’t take any damage, but sends the 50% back.

1 Like
#5

I don’t really see how that would help. Wouldn’t we just end up with skull damage teams that also reflect skull damage? Courage, Courage, Bone Dragon has a free slot, and a buffed Gloom Leaf might fit pretty well.

#6

I don’t see the problem?

Most people don’t fight skull damage teams with skull damage, partly because you could be helping the other team by creating skulls.

You just described how it helps. It’s a fix for everyone.

You could use a part skull damage team, and part something else, but that’s the point. The skull reflect troops aren’t OP. Everything needs an effective counter in this game.

#7

It doesn’t seem to be a fix for me. It’s not about creating skulls, it’s about removing skulls. Whenever there’s a Courage on the opposing team I make extra sure to not grant a skull match, because that will make the whole team grow. You approach requires me to take damage for denying the opposing team the very resource it needs.

#8

uhh, what? You would need them to take skulls to buff their attack, thus dealing more damage to them.

Every single time they get a skull match they are dealing damage to themselves. The higher the damage, the more damage they take.

Gloom Leaf would take every source of damage but skull damage. If your team has the tank, and it’s true damage, you can kill gloom leaf fairly easily.

#9

No, I would definitely never want to do that. Each skull match yields 24 extra health, shared among the team. It’s a race you can’t win, unless that damage reflection has percentage numbers of epic proportions. Which would totally kill off all teams using anything other than skills.

#10

Doesn’t matter about the health buff Gloom Leaf would receive. Kraken still finds him to be a tasty treat. As would numerous other troops in this game.

You’re looking at this incorrectly.

#11

So you are saying any change to Gloom Leaf would actually be irrelevant because the real counter to skull teams is Kraken and numerous other troops? I’m confused now.

#12

Kraken is not a true counter to skull damage teams.

The problem with skull damage teams are they fire off way too fast, and they’re often paired with Bone Dragon which deals way more damage than he is supposed to. They kill everything in their path with no real resistance of as of now except a few weaker troops. Sylvanimora being probably the strongest counter. Courage/ BD teams can literally kill entire teams in 3-4 turns without blinking.

Gloom leaf on the other hand has too many counters to name.

1 Like
#13

5 Likes
#15

On topic: I do agree that we need some troops to counter skull spam team. Also I do agree that Courage is too OP. Sure Sylvanimora (and any other troops with entangle ability) is one way to counter skull spam deck but with Courage there in the deck it’s different story. Or just simply put impervious troop on first spot.
Gorgotha is also one troop to counter skull spam team, BD especially. I never had problem fighting BD or any other skull creator troops with Gorgotha on first spot. But with courage there, it’s different story. Even if Gorgotha can absorb a board full of skull, the enemy gain way too many HP and Attack after 1 BD cast.
Gloom leaf trait in theory is another way to counter skull spam team. But 50% is not enough in my opinion. Make it 100%, or add stoneskin to his trait. Not to mention, again, courage, will cover the reflect damage by buffing the attacker tons of HP back.

Edit: the simpler way probably is to nerf BD and Courage. You can pretty much put anything on top of BD and 2x Courage. XD

4 Likes
#16

I was reading through this discussion, and I came across an interesting idea. It may not even be viable, but I am going to throw it out there anyway.

So the way BD works is he creates skulls based on a single troops armor, and the problem with him at end game is that the troops have SO MUCH armor. So what about a troop (or mechanic or whatever) that transforms a portion, or even all, armor to life? It could even be a legendary trait that fires off at the beginning of a game. The transformation doesn’t even have to be at a 1:1 ratio.

Anyway, just an idea, and again, I’m not sure how viable it is, or even how easy/hard it would be to code it into the game.

#17

Very good points. You’re absolutely right Gorgotha is the best we have right now.

Gorgotha
Ds
Kraken
Death

Actually works really good, but Gorgotha still takes in the damage. Imagine this team if Gorgotha was dealing the damage back out. That was my thought process behind this idea. Health is never an issue, there are too many effective counters in this game. True damage, devour, death mark, etc. So if we can just stop the skull spam, we can win the fight.

Of course you would know Zoo, you’re pretty much the undisputed King :wink:

The bonus is Gloom Leaf actually fits into a team with ds/kraken/death still really well.

#18

I still think that the issue with Bone Dragon and Courage could be solved by updating the game mechanics.

BD casting and mass spawning skulls should only count as one hit, and therefore it should:

  • Only activate courage once
  • Do no damage to a troop with an active barrier
  • Do attack + 1 damage for each unbroken chain of skulls

This would provide a LOT more counters to BD. It would also reduce the effectiveness of plague, kraken and Moloch which is no bad thing.

2 Likes
#19

Also HK I was also thinking about gloom leaf today when I encountered it in PvP. I agree it is totally weak and doesn’t do a good enough job as a lead troop, especially when compared to Gorgotha.

1 Like
#20

To answer a question from near the beginning of the thread, the only troop that currently reflects damage is Gloom Leaf. There are one or two that deal damage on 4 or 5 matches and the like, but nothing else actually turns damage back on the attacker. This is Gloom Leaf’s unique legendary trait.

So here’s an idea - what if we added a buff spell to the game that added a reflect? Like Barrier, it would pop from one hit, but it would prevent some amount of damage to the troop, and deal the reflected damage back at the attacker. This would allow us to use other tanks, like Gorgotha, and still be able to survive an onslaught. Maybe two versions of the reflect, one for skulls and one for spell damage.

Not sure if this would turn out to be too OP in its own right, however.

2 Likes
#21

As I said in another thread, I DO NOT think Courage is necessarily OP. He’s stout, for sure, but so is Justice.

The difference is that Courage fits perfectly with Bone Dragon. Try using Courage in another team without that much skull spam and he’s not nearly as devastating.

1 Like