Total Towers Question

I understand your desire to hide data from your Guild, so that guild mates can not make informed decisions on your success (or lack of).

I can ASURE you: if in your “scenario” I purchased T2 and got say 225 Towers NO ONE would even consider “pressuring” me to buy more tiers. Quite the opposite, they would look for tips to improve (like GW). By identify “Stars” you encourage better play for everyone in the Guild, because they can share what they are doing.

I still feel like you must be in an extremely toxic environment, good luck.

Well, in truth, the scenario I described did somewhat happen to me in my old guild, where I (foolishly, in hindsight) posted my tier purchase information. There was at least mild resentment and frustration on both sides. I’m not sure I would describe it as a “toxic” environment but “very competitive” at least.

Note that I said “my old guild”. I did leave that guild, so I must not have been completely happy there…

Would it happen again in my new guild? I don’t think so, but so far I have not been posting my purchase information. The only thing they can see is my bottom line performance, and that is how I would like it to remain. Even in this new guild, I can’t see that the value of that information being public outweighs the risk of resentment, whether latent or patent.

Well if we can see sigils remaining and that you still have 10 sigils to use and not every rewards have been unlock then we know it is still possible to finish it.

So maybe if myself have sigils remaining too I will use them otherwise if I see I am the only one who have sigils left and that even if I win all my fights we won’t obtain anymore rewards, I won’t use my sigils.


@cyrup I’d rather more information was made available in the guild view, in particular to the GL… then it’s down to each guild and GL as always to set its culture and determine whether minimum goals or spend levels are set…


Maybe in a frustrating manner, I don’t have a single, clear, strong recommendation. But let’s talk about the spirit of what guild leaders had, how Raids/Invasions changed it, and what they (probably) want. I like to try and summarize for everyone with a GIANT WALL OF WORDS. If players disagree with my assessment, they can write their own GIANT WALL OF WORDS.

Guild leaders want very clear, visible indicators that a player is “paying their rent”, so to speak. Guilds tend to use some combination of these metrics as minimums:

  • Amount of gold donated to tasks per week.
  • Number of seals collected.
  • Number of trophies collected.
  • Level of GW Sentinels purchased.
  • Number of GW matches played.

It’s no coincidence all of that is what I’ll call “guild-public” information. You have to be in a player’s guild to see any of it. The guild roster shows the first three, and the GW interface shows the other two.

Anyway, guild leaders try to set minimums in one or more of these categories to ensure even the biggest slackers in the guild help maintain some minimum position for the clan. How a guild sets these minimums has a lot to do with where it falls on the “casual” or “competitive” spectrum and let’s deal with some naysayers right now: it’s fine to be anywhere along that spectrum.

Now a problem with those minimums is keeping in mind that a player has only so many hours per week they can play. People tend to be in a guild with the minimums they can meet, so anything that disrupts their play pattern can threaten to cause them to be kicked out of their guild. This tends to make people passionate!

Raids and Invasions disrupted minimums because the individual matches give fewer rewards than a PvP match and the higher levels take significantly more time per match due to increased stakes and strategy. People have complained about this. A competitive player might be able to earn 20k gold, ~25 seals, and ~12 trophies in the time it takes to do one Raid Boss or Invasion match, but that match will only yield a few hundred gold, 4 seals, and 0 trophies. So if the player was doing fine playing 2 hours daily and meeting minimums, but Raid/Invasion takes up 30 minutes of their day, they might be in danger of failing their clan minimums. So they’re passionate about it! Lots of guilds are trying to decide if Raid/Invasion weeks are weeks where gold/trophy requirements are relaxed, and by how much. Lots of guilds are also pointing out if Raid/Invasion matches awarded trophies/gold in line with their scaling stats, the issue might disappear. These are potential things the devs could do to help.

Now, what is missing that guilds want? We only have this guild-visible information about players:

  • Current Boss level.
  • Total towers killed/damage done.

Neither of these is a good measure of participation. Let’s say a guild lets a very new player join. That player may have a very poor set of troops for an event, and start losing matches around boss level 80 or something else sort of low. Their total towers killed or boss damage will be piddling, but they still worked very hard! Now let’s say an experienced player slacks off. They don’t play half their sigils, and end up with the same boss level/score as the newbie. There’s not an objective way to tell the difference, other than saying, “Well, a level 1,000 player SHOULD get further than a level 80 player.” Guild leaders and players HATE subjective criteria.

There are some aspects of what a player’s done in the event that are NOT visible, to some extent even the player can’t see some of these:

  • Number of sigils spent.
  • Level of tier purchased.
  • Win-loss record.
  • A fancy-schmancy very detailed readout of every match and its results.

Sigil count is a mostly agreed-upon good measure of effort. We know how many minimum sigils a player should get in a week. If the guild can see how many sigils were spent, that’s a good indicator of “an effort was made”. Going back to our ambiguous situation above, if we see the newbie spent all of thier sigils we can assume they “did their best”. If a higher-level player only uses half the sigils, it’s clear their score isn’t “bad luck” but “poor participation”. And high-level players with lots of sigils spent but low scores can warrant “What the heck happened?” This is more objective!

I don’t think the tier level is valuable, but many guilds see it as a sign of “putting skin in the game”. Theoretically a guild NEEDS to buy up to a certain tier, so that’s often brought up. If someone has to spend a significant amount of gems by default, it should follow they might be compelled to play those sigils out. I think most people think this is a weak indicator of effort. Spending a sigil usually gets at least SOMETHING for the guild in terms of progress. Buying tiers doesn’t. But currently it’s only possible to guess tier levels by calculating theoretical maximums for each sigil count, so it’s hidden information.

Win-loss record isn’t brought up a lot but is a good indicator for finding, “You spent all your sigils but didn’t attempt to win.” Our helpless newbie from above will show “all sigils spent, but many losses” and well, you expect that when you invest in a newbie. A veteran who has some bad luck can point to losses as an explanation for a low score. There’s some subjectivity here, but I think it’s agreeable.

The last option is something there’s no way the devs will ever do because it’s a ton of effort for something low-value. I’d describe it but just like, imagine “so much information people complain it’s hard to check minimums” and there you go.

I see some discussion about privacy here. We do have a bit more visibility in these leaderboards than we do in GW. In GW, only guildmates get detailed information about how an individual performed. Since Raids/Invasions have a global leaderboard, some information about a player’s progress is visible to everyone. I think since it is what it is, we shouldn’t change what’s visible on the global leaderboards. That’s the easiest way to deal with privacy: don’t expose more than has already been exposed.

“Level of tier purchased” is the next-most-private bit of information and I understand why some people may not want it visible. I feel like the discussion above shows it’s also a bit less valuable in terms of judging effort, so let’s just keep it private.

I think the guild leaderboard should display a Win-Loss record. That will implicitly display “sigils spent”, but gives more explanation for how the player is performing. Sigils spent is an objective indicator of “effort”. Win ratio is a good bit more subjective, but IMO it’s about as hard to “try to win” as it is to “fake bad luck convincingly”.

There are a few other metrics like “valravens defeated” that could be displayed, but I think the sigil count and/or win-loss record are the most strongly supported metrics.


TL;DR; for busy devs:

I’m confident most players would be happy if you add a Win-Loss record to JUST the guild leaderboard. This exposes no extra information outside the guild and provides an indicator of effort for guild leaders.

It would also be appreciated by players if match rewards in Raids/Invasions:

  • Included trophies, which are a very common guild minimum.
  • Scaled with boss level to make up for taking longer than PvP matches.

We understand portal rewards are meant to make up for the low per-match rewards, but the lack of trophies is a major burden to many guilds.

We also would like to see a kingdom oriented around popular fast food treats with lovable troops such as “Burrito Golem”, “King Burger”, and “The Sandwichhighwayman”.


Exactly this.

There are a plethora of guilds with any combination of requirements. Some guilds have no requirements for raid/invasion, some ask that everyone use their sigils, and I assume some even have a tier purchase requirement just like plenty of guilds have sentinel leveling requirements.

So, it would help GLs and guild managers if we had actual data like remaining sigils (just like we are able to track fights remaining in GW. We can already track sentinel purchases in GW. So, tracking tier purchases in raid/Invasion is not setting a new precedent. It would just make the amount of data available to guild management consistent.

As always, the guild should be able to set their own goals and monitor it as they see fit. Players can choose the guild culture that best fits their play style.

My TLDR; @Cyrup
I’d like the raid/invasion data available to guild management to match what we can see in guild wars.


I agree with almost everything you say, but your KOL withdrawal appears to be affecting your judgment.

OK. True story.

I can’t remember exactly what it was, but my entire KoL career there was this one guy who would show up in EVERY thread about new features to ask if some gag item was going to be implemented. EVERY. THREAD. I wish I remember what it was because part of the point was it sounded stupid, everyone agreed it would be stupid, and it was only funny because it was so consistent.

I admire his dedication and yes, my best jokes are always based on something else.

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@Cyrup I’m not as verbose as most posters, but below are some specific additions I would like to see to see added to the Guild Leaderboard.

First, Let me just reiterate that this is a Guild Event, under the Guild Tab, replacing Guild Wars 2/3 of the weeks, with specific Guild rewards based on how your Guild does as a team. If a player doesn’t want the Guild to know what they are doing perhaps its time to investigate the Leave Guild/Join Guild buttons.

TL;DR Guild

Existing Guild ONLY leaderboard Information (current)

  • Tower Level (fun useless info)
  • Towers Defeated (essential info)

New additions to the Guild ONLY leaderboard Information

  • Tier Purchased (essential info)
  • Sigils Remaining in inventory (essential info)
  • W/L Record (fun info)
  • Valravens Killed (fun useless info)

Finally please don’t forget about the other events just because this thread is focused on one of them.



I agree that W/L record and sigils remaining are extremely useful numbers for guild members. (Valravens caught/lost would be fun but not mission-critical.)

Sigils remaining would be particularly helpful for me. If I have ten sigils left, but we need to kill 100 towers to get to the next reward, why bother? If I can see that two other people also have ten sigils left, I know it’s achievable and should push my guild mates to finish their own sigils.

Edit: I think there is a strong argument that tiers purchased should also be visible, based on comparisons to the Guild Wars screen and sentinels.