What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened?
I was playing in the Arena with the reworked Ghoul, who decreases the ennemy stat. He decreased the Giant Spider’s magic stat, so her summoning should be lower than 15. Yet she still summoned a level 15 creature.
What are the steps to make it happen again?
From what I’ve been told, all summoning is broken in the Arena at the moment, so I don’t know if this is specific to the Giant Spider or not, but decreasing someone’s magic stat has zero effect on summoning.
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This is intentional. Everything in Arena summons to 15 regardless of magic or your levels out of Arena. This is to make sure all summons are fair for all players. If they didn’t do this summons like Sacrificial Priest, Nysha’s Skull, and Daemonicon would be much weaker for weaker players.
That doesn’t actually make much sense. I understand that everyone has Spider Swarm at Common at level 15, but the level should still be reduced based on a debuff that occurred during battle. The playing field is still level at the start of the match.
Well yeah, that’s idiotic if that’s intentional. What’s the point in debuffing someone’s magic if it doesn’t have any effect on summoners? Then the text should be changed, at least inside the Arena. Like “don’t bother with debuffing that specific troop, it’s broken! ^_^”
I get that they could have a base of “level 15 summons” for everyone, but debuffs should work as intended; if they don’t, it should be clearly stated somewhere.
Because there are many summons in this game that summon way below level 15 on hero, all of which would be useless without this automatic level 15 mechanic.
Not in Arena, actually. There are quite a lot of summoning troops, who are pretty tough in Arena by default since it enables you to go into battle with well over 4 units. Debuffing magic SHOULD have an effect.
No one is saying that it shouldn’t be an automatic level 15, that makes sense for a level playing field. Just that that level should be modifiable based on in-combat effects. Otherwise summons are overpowered since they basically ignore a whole class of debuff (magic reduction)
Actually I am. You all start with level 15, no traits, kingdom bonuses or hero powers. Buffing and debuffing should work as normal. If I use Sun&Moon and can fire it off repeatedlly, my units and I should profit from that. If my enemy debuffs everyone on my side, they profit from it too. I like Arena because it’s an even playing field from the start, but nothing stops you from buffing or debuffing troops.
Edit: Also, I’d be fine with a hard code saying saying no summons could be over 15. No troop is over 15 by default in the Arena so I’d be ok with it.
If (Hero Weapon == SummonTypeWeapon) {
Hero.SetCombatMagicValue(15);
}
If they get buffed they run into the issue of you need to be a higher rarity to get above level 15. Yes this means that magic increases are useless on a summon. But this is much easier to understand intuitively since it’s the same as how all troops are leveled.
EDIT: Actually what @Archenassa makes sense as well. You wouldn’t get the Ascension bonus, but the level bonuses would still apply. But that sounds less intuitive for the player to grasp.
I play on console so I might not know what I’m talking about, but my understanding is if you use a summon on pc/mobile, the creature summoned has the stats of whatever is in your deck, so magic of the summoner does nott have any affect on what is summoned.
That might be true for PvP, but it shouldn’t work that way in the Arena. The whole point of the Arena is that everyone plays on the same level. Whether you’re level 100 or 1000, everyone has troops at the same level, without external bonuses to enter play, such as traits, kingdom powers or hero classes. Increasing your units’ stats or debuffing your opponents’ stats can only be done through specific skills/weapons. If summoners are immune to magic debuff, it basically makes them a lot more powerful than they already are. In the Arena, having summons is already a really good deal, because units are more squishy and replacing your fallen top unit by a new one can win you a game. Now if they also have magic-debuffing immunity, that’s just ridiculous.
Ok, maybe the rules for summoning are a bit complicated now, but they’re not as complicated as you’re all making them out to be. It’s basically the level of the summoned troop in your collection, or the magic stat of the summoner, whichever is lower. In the arena, it should substitute 15 for the first check. That’s all. Raising the summoner’s magic stat shouldn’t allow it to exceed the level of the troop in your collection, just like outside the arena. Reducing the summoner’s magic stat should reduce the level of the summoned troop, just like outside the arena.
Basically, the arena should substitute a level 15 version of the troop with no traits for the purposes of summoning, just like it does for all other purposes. It’s not that complicated.
