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Psion-Diviner interaction/Clarification about Mana Steal

Terminology clarification appreciated—Mana Steal is separate from Mana Drain and Mana Burn, as evidenced by the new text on Mana Shield. Psion’s third trait is worded as “Steal”, and therefore should not be resisted by Sky Ancestry as it only resists Mana Drain and Mana Burn.

What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened?
Psion’s third trait is nullified by Diviner’s third trait.

What are the steps to make it happen again?
Any match with Psion and Diviner in the first slot on their respective teams.

Do you have any screenshots or video you want to share with us so we can see the problem? Attach them to your post!
IMG_6542

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If you can’t be drained then you have nothing to steal. That’s how I look at it. I don’t know why immunity to mana steal is even a thing because immunity to mana drain trumps it and every troop in the game that has it has both.

Why should it trump it? There is no logic in that. There are spells that steal mana but not drain it, and there are spells that drain mana but not steal it. The language used is clear and precise.

Not true in the slightest. Mana Shield is the only trait that has both Drain and Steal immunity. Sky Ancestry only has Drain and Burn immunity. If Steal immunity is an actual thing for Sky Ancestry, it should be stated clearly in the text. My guess is that it’s not, and that it was overlooked during a stage of development.

It trumps it because of my first sentence from above.

What spell steals but not drain?

Every troop that has immunity to steal has immunity to drain. Is what I was saying in your 2nd quote of mine.

http://gowdb.com/trooptable?filter-effects=Steal

Or even http://gowdb.com/trooptable?filter-effects=Steal+Mana

Show me a troop that can steal without also draining what it steals.

The troops in the links do such a thing. They do not mention “Drain” in their spell text for a reason.

Thanks for the reply, looking forward to an actual dev posting to clarify.

No problem mate. But I suggest you try out a troop from the link you posted to see for yourself they also drain what they steal.

Spider Totem and Soul of Xathenos (two best DB counters in Arena, I think)…

Spider Totem’s description says ‘drain mana’, so the weapon depletes enemy mana;
Soul of Xatheno’s description says ‘steal mana’, so the weapon drains enemy mana and then uses the drained amount to fill itself;

I guess, the same mechanics should hold true for the troops as well - no stealing is possible without draining what you steal first. Just think about troops that ‘steal life from enemies’: it’s not like those troops just add some life and enemy life stays at the same level. Enemy actually loses the amount of life stolen.

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The reason is they forgot. The mana drain (and steal) immunity was introduced to finally add a counter to both mana steal and mana drain - to Psion as well as Nyx and Famine, which were (and still are) the most egregious offenders in meta defences. Mana drain (and steal) has long been hugely frustrating to play against - any effect that slows the game or stops you doing things needs handling with care. Mana drain and mana steal were intended to both be (at long last) countered. It’s silly semantics to argue that because it’s a different word, it should have a different outcome here. Yes, I get that drain and steal aren’t strictly the same thing (like damage and life steal aren’t the same thing), but the spirit of what needed doing is what was done.

I agree that the text could be clearer, if only to save people the stress of splitting this particular hair. Devs probably forgot to state the two keywords in the text, or assumed that precision was needless. Who knows.

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Except for Draakulis gaining life for troops protected by a shield :wink: . The game is not very consistent about such things.

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You mean a Barrier - and yes, that has to be a bug :slight_smile:

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Ups, sorry, wrong wording. I sometimes have a problem when switching to english.

No problem. I often have a problem with English, and I am English. Welcome to the semantics thread :smiley:

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Alright, I think I get it now. If you ask me, between this and the infuriating ambiguity of “take damage” (to… armour? life?) I feel like there should be a more thorough rewriting of keywords and phrases that leave room for interpretation. :thinking:

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That would be nice. We should just set @shimrra and @Mithran to go through them once and for all. However, note that card text boxes are also kinda small…

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I’m thinking of the info boxes that pop up on the right when you view a card should contain more information, especially in cases like these. Could be worth a shot.

(While we’re at it… bring back the detailed info boxes for creature and kingdom bonuses, please…? There’s no way to look at an opponent’s right now short of memorising each one.)

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With consistent wording even searching for troops with certain ability would be less of a pain. Like with transforming gems - almost all troop cards have word “transform”. Still, there is at least one exception in the form of Asha who, for some mysterious reason, “converts” gems instead of “transforming”.

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Don’t forget the inconsistency in “heal” “give (life)” “gain (life)” and “recover”. It was a sad day when I farmed 30 traitstones only to find out that the Priest class doesn’t actually give troops 2 HP per round, only “heals” a troop up to its original MHP.

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Challenge accepted. There have been a few things I’d like changed for sure…

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