Please reorder the Victory cards more sensibly

The order in which reward cards appear on the Victory screen at the end of each battle has long been problematic.

The addition of a second, simultaneous Shrine brings this into sharp focus.
In other words, it’s finally time to make this a priority.

TL;DR

Skip to the last two sections, then come back up to understand my reasoning.

Short version: Move Shrines to the front, Traitstones to the first group and, most important, Guild Wars points to the very end.

First or Last?

The first question is whether the most important cards should go first or last?

I think we can use both, in different ways.

The first cards to appear will only be looked at briefly, and only by someone who isn’t trying to win battles quickly. Therefore, it makes sense for impressive but mundane rewards to appear first. Apart from the very first card (which we all see most of the time, albeit very briefly), these rewards are mostly only important to new players.

Everyone gets to see the last few cards, either because they Skip ahead, or because the game shows them indefinitely while waiting for player input. Therefore, these are the most important rewards for people playing quickly and/or familiar with the game.

What Goes First?

XP, Gold, Souls, and Traitstones. All the things that become irrelevant, later in the game. The only real change here is that Traitstones definitely need to be moved to the front group.

What Goes Last?

The very last thing must be anything specific to the Event or game Mode. We already see Delve Chests in last place, as well as Vault Rewards. We desperately need to move Guild Wars scores to last place. And Event-specific rewards (such as Boss Damage or Fey Lanterns, from a few World Events ago) must be visible when the game stops scrolling the Victory screen rewards. Valravens also need to be visible. Gnome rewards are actually less important, though moving Traitstones and Shrines out of the way should help keep them in view, anyway.

What Goes in the Middle?

Delve room rewards, and similar mundane, but event-specific rewards. These will sometimes be visible on the final screen and sometimes not. Trophies and Class XP fall into the same category. But Faction Event points really belong in the last group.

Just to confuse things a bit, once a Class has reached level 100, knowing how many Class XP a battle gives you becomes far less important. It’s still important to show it somewhere (so the player can see how many Class XP they could have earned for another class in that mode), but it should be dynamically deprioritised. I would put it before Trophies if the class is already maxed, or leave it where it is otherwise. If this is too difficult, and a fixed order is required, put it always just before Trophies.

Stupid Shrines

Shrines are a niche element of the game that only appeals to a tiny fraction of players. Yet their cards get in the way of much more important rewards for every single player.

Fundamentally, this is a contest between marketing and common sense. But I believe there is an agreeable compromise.

First, the fact that Shrines are permanently marked with an Attention icon once full really should be sufficient for the marketers. Players uninterested in Shrines find these indicators incredibly annoying – the more OCD-like you are as a player, the more annoying it is to be unable to dismiss it.

However, marketers are rarely that logical.

Instead, I propose moving the Shrine cards right to the front of the Victory screen rewards list.

This is a win-win situation. Everyone gets to see that first card come up and remind us that Shrines exist (though, as I said, the map-screen reminder is far more prominent), simply because we usually don’t click fast enough to skip the first card. If this isn’t sufficient, make the background of the card more prominent, so it forms a stronger visual link to the Shrine “feature” in our minds.

Meanwhile, after skipping (or waiting out) the string of rewards, we get to see the most important rewards prominently, clearly, and conveniently displayed – just how we want them.

Conclusion – What Needs to Change?

If you disagree with my logic, this entire post has been a waste of time. But frankly, if you fundamentally disagree (as opposed to disagreeing with a couple of details), that seems like good evidence that you don’t play the game much.

I’m going to refer to a front, middle, and end group of reward cards, along with positions within those groups. The existing positions within the groups can generally remain unchanged (eg: XP, then Gold, Souls and Treasure Maps in the front group).

Here’s a simple, step-by-step list of some of the necessary changes:

  1. Move Shrine cards to the very front of the list. (Mind you, players would probably prefer them at the end of the front group.)

  2. Move Traitstones into the front group.

  3. Move Trophies and Class XP to the end of the middle group, after the Delve Room rewards (for example).

  4. Move Faction Event points to the end of the last group, just before Valravens and Chests. In fact, this is the correct position for all types of Event points.

  5. Move Guild Wars points to the very end of the list. THIS IS CRITICAL. (Technically, it’s also covered by the previous point – but it’s so important, it really does bear repeating explicitly.)

  6. Outside of the Vault, move Gnome rewards to either the start of the last group, or to the middle group.

Final Order

I’m sure I’ll miss something, but here’s an attempt at a complete order.

Front Group

  • XP
  • Gold
  • Souls
  • Traitstones, from rarest to most common
  • Gold Shrine (or in first place)
  • Soul Shrine (or in second place)
  • Gold Keys
  • Treasure Maps

Middle Group

  • Delve Room Gold
  • Delve Room Glory
  • Delve Room Souls
  • Delve Room Traitstones
  • Other Room-Specific Rewards (except Faction Event points)
  • Class XP (if class is level 100)
  • Gnome drops (optional position)
  • Trophies
  • Class XP (if class is under level 100)

Final Group

  • Gnome drops (more likely position)
  • Vault Gnome drops
  • World Event drops
  • Journey miles
  • Boss Damage
  • Towers killed
  • Tower of Doom Scrolls
  • PvP points
  • Explore mini-boss/mythic-boss annnouncements
  • Faction Event points
  • Guild Wars points
  • Valravens
  • Delve Chest upgrade
21 Likes

I was actually just thinking about this earlier after I realised the shrine cards were moving more important cards off to the left of the screen.

2 Likes

I agree with the overall suggestion but have differing thoughts on the order of some of them.

Would it benefit newer players to have traitstones in a later group? Back when I was farming for Arcane traitstones, I’d often pay attention to the ones I got. It was usually for upgrading specific troops and I’d stop once I thought I gathered enough. I haven’t farmed for them in a long time, so maybe things are different now.

I feel like class xp isn’t as important and could go in an earlier group. It’s useful to know if you get 1 or 2 exp per game mode, but once you know that, it doesn’t seem beneficial to see it. Class level ups could be categorized differently and be displayed later on.

Either way, I’d love to see those shrine cards move to the front.

4 Likes

Perhaps a better idea would be to re-size and re-sort icons for post-combat rewards such that everything fits on the same screen. Surely there’s a way to format and arrange things without making the illustrations teeny-tiny and perhaps multiple rows could be used instead of one long row with a scroll bar.

6 Likes

Like 2 or 3 rows. I agree. The whole scrollable rewards thing is stupid. You should never have to scroll to see what you got. Also not being able to skip the delve chest upgrade animation drives me insane every day.

4 Likes

While I agree that resizing the victory cards would be handy, I suspect it’s not truly feasible on mobile devices.

Mind you, the fact I can see so much more in chat and many menus (eg: Soulforge) on my 14" iPad than my 27" PC is quite ridiculous.

It’s a bit like the old “Large Fonts” issue, but so much easier to fix: just retrieve the dpi figure and use it to inform your GUI sizing.

Sadly, I’m sure that’s just too much to ask. Which is why I asked for something much simpler, instead.

Scouting the Tower of Doom this week for my guild made me hate the shrine cards even more. Too frequently they pushed the buff card from the tower out of sight, instead of that card being prominently visible on the far right.
I absolutely don’t care about the shrines and will not be buying them, so wasting card space on those is really frustrating. And even if I did care about them, I don’t need to see them like this.

The whole rewards screen definitely could use a re-work, most of the screen-space is wasted on empty bits, where more useful information could be fitted.
The cards for one are a huge waste of space, especially since they are not really interactable (ie, they don’t link to anywhere else or displaying any further information), and could easily be replaced a simpler one, like having 2 lists side by side, or having the “common” rewards consolidated into one small list on the side, with the “rarer” rewards on the right side in larger non-card form.

TBH, 99.9% of the time I don’t even pay attention to the reward screen and just hammer esc key or spam click next.
Something that could be handy though, is if there was a rewards log window we could take a look at, to see the rewards from last 10-100 fights individually (by clicking/tapping on the relevant line).

8 Likes

This is 100% intentional psychological manipulation. Google “Loss Aversion”. Essentially people are more averse to loss than they are happy to gain.

The whole point is so you see that you’re “investing” into the shrine and trying to get you to feel like you’re losing something by not buying it. Its exactly why they have ‘free’ and ‘paid’ tracks in the passes; people are more likely to purchase that than just a “cash for goods” transactions.

User experience or cash, which do you think these devs will lean towards?

5 Likes

I know about loss aversion & that whole (evil) psychological manipulation.
Sometimes I’m thankful I took a class in advertising & marketing 30 years ago, it’s still very relevant today (even more so), so I am quite aware of how all those things work.
Sadly, most people have never taken such class and fall for those schemes.

But regardless, it’s possible to find a bettter middle ground.

I like the idea of a rewards log, especially for Guild Wars (and Tower of Doom).

Of course, if the mail log is any indication, they’d likely mess it up: it’s in reverse order. :man_facepalming:

TBH: I don’t think these devs are heavily driven by monetisation (or things would be a lot worse). However, they tend not to allow time to revise things that already exist, not even immediately after adding them to the game.

All of these things are a balance, of course. Personally, if marketing complains about moving the shrine cards, a compromise could certainly be reached, as I discussed.

The other possibility is to add a setting as to where the shrine cards appear. Weirdly, the Explore revamp mess highlighted that the devs inexplicably refuse to add custom settings for any new part of the game. Even when it’s a really obvious and simple thing to do.

My brother (who’s worked in games) would say there’s good reason, but to me it all just feels like excuses for poor management and programming skills. Very frustrating!

2 Likes

Yes, I would like to retract my support of this request. We are constantly made aware of the fragile code of this game and after some thought, I fear any changes would create results worse than a QoL reordering of card appearance benefits.

2 Likes

I miss the old UI where all the rewards were shown on screen with no scrolling needed. Also, good luck with getting shrine rewards moved, never going to happen.

1 Like

Good post. I was just complaining on live or one of my videos about that shrine reward card pushing everything to the left. Shrine would be the last thing i would ever buy and ive bought nothing ever. I like the ideas yall came up with, would be nice.

I bet they add a third shrine before they do anything to help with this tho lol

4 Likes

Just add a no-shrine-cards-on-victory-screen-for-30-days pass for 9.99$