Looking for PF 500 strategy and advice on remaining factions

[Cronus]

Hey GoW friends!

I have the following delves remaining:

I have color-coded things but also put notes, so that it is easier. For anyone that have done PF 500 runs with and without potions, could you please take a look and let me know if my ordering is good or bad? Are there anything you would suggest me to be careful about? Can any of the reds move to orange (e.g., doable by forcing hoard levels)? Is any of the orange or green should be considered a mis-calculation (e.g., is much difficult than I am hoping for)?

I appreciate all help and tricks as usual. Thanks!

[kamosloki]

Looks about right to me. 155 might be a bit challenging for Hall of Guardians but not too far off. I did it at 188. Werewoods I did at 254 but it was pretty painful, very heavy on the RNG. Fang Moor I needed to go to 254 also. Sea of Sorrow I did at 232. I did Labyrinth and Hell Gate on release and am very glad about that

[Hazard1]

Hall of Guardians is totally doable with 100+50% hoard as long as you just don’t do the usual mistake and use double Gargoyle and ignore Golem. The Golem and it’s spell plays quite a big role in success, as everyone in the boss room has some sort of reductions or other annoying stuff, like the legendary Silent Sentinel for example. Also if you play with the strengths of your troops, Lightstorm will diminish red and brown gem spawns and you won’t get to take too many Gargoyle casts when you have killed the troops with skulls.

Otherwise it looks ok, however you will notice that Eldrazhor is incredibly luck based delve. You gotta luckbox with suitable V room, or otherwise you take long route, which is fine but adds to the disappointment when boss room doesn’t go your way. The lethal shot chances are hard to pull out and AI obviously get’s all kinds of nasty success, like Stuns, Death Mark Kills etc. That’s what I have been currently trying without getting another success yet.

Werewoods is doable without losing sanity, just gotta get lucky lol. I did it with 176.

Sea of Sorrow is not tough really, just needs that mandatory hoard boost to around 199 as the boss room is so true damage heavy.

Hell Gate is slugfest, so yeah that will require very high hoard.

Labyrinth has been done with as low as 199+50% hoard. I dunno if they used Death Mark method or not though.

[Cronus]

@Hazard1

Hall of Guardians is totally doable with 100+50% hoard as long as you just don’t do the usual mistake and use double Gargoyle and ignore Golem.

As far as I understand, you suggest taking Golem, but I cannot tell the rest of the team. I would imagine that there is at least one Ethereal Sentry (for boosting attack), but what is the rest? Do I still take Gargoyle or do I rely on Silent Sentinel on the front for silence and damage reduction? Also, as far as I understand you suggest relying on boosting attack with Ethereal and then going to skull kills instead of relying on Gargoyle’s damage?

@Hazard1

however you will notice that Eldrazhor is incredibly luck based delve.

Would you say that this is more luck based compared to Crypt Keepers? I would imagine so since in Crypt Keepers, having 65% reduction on Morana is a life-saver. Here, I don’t see anything with damage reduction, so best bet for front is to have Huntsman so that it summons on death. Also, Morana’s instant kill scales with purple gems which you can increase where as Matron’s instant kill is limited to 26% (as far as I can tell). So, I am wondering if I categorize this incorrectly and this should be either orange or even potentially red (e.g., will drive me insane unless I get super lucky and therefore should be left to do with potions)?

@Hazard1

Werewoods is doable without losing sanity, just gotta get lucky lol. I did it with 176.

Do you mind sharing strategy and team? I might check this out again.

@Hazard1

Sea of Sorrow is not tough really, just needs that mandatory hoard boost to around 199 as the boss room is so true damage heavy.

Yeah I imagined that you need to out-run enemy Deep King with yours. So, I understand. Glad to hear that it is not very difficult though; then I might bring that earlier.

@Hazard1

Labyrinth has been done with as low as 199+50% hoard. I dunno if they used Death Mark method or not though.

I imagine you are referring to getting Drakulis room so that the troops get death mark on skull hit and then relying on this to clear the enemy out?

[kamosloki]

For Hall of Guardians, I used Silent Sentinel, Etheral Sentry, Arcane Golem, Gargoyle.

Arcane Golem is important to disable all those spell resistances. In the final room I used Etheral Sentry to mostly buff its own attack rather than buffing silent sentinel, then when silent sentinel dies (which it likely will) then your front troop has a very high attack. Then use your Gargoyle to target theirs once stunned

[Hazard1]

This is how you do it @Cronus

[kamosloki]

I don’t think it matters a huge amount what team you use in Werewoods as it will likely look totally different by the last room. I started out using Werebear and 3 Torbern. I tried to keep one Torbern untransformed for the hunters marks

[Hazard1]

About strategy, info etc. I am just posting link to my playlist and put you to work little bit. Alphabetical order so you will easily find the delve you want to check. More info can be found from clip descriptions. But yeah, in short Eldrazhor is a A LOT harder to pull through than Crypt Keepers even though you can remove the attack and add survivability that way. It’s just that the lethal shot chance is really hard to pull.

[Djimbalimbl]

My thoughts on your missing factions:

I tried Eldrazhor a lot without potions and for me, it would be completely “red”, following your colour table. I finally did it on a Tuesday. The problem for my mental health was the enemy team in the first room, because it uses two Elven Rogues. You can not kill them as long as the other two troops are still alive and they will very likely get enough mana to reduce your attack to 0. Then you have to rely on instant kill or the (slow) damage to all of Deep Magus. So the first fight usually is a very long and annoying one, that you will win in almost every try, but it takes a lot of time and still you are not sure to get a successful run. So you are wasting a lot of time for basically nothing. After some weeks, i got so frustrated, that I banned Eldrazhor to my Tuesday list…

For Hall of Guardians I used the same team, that @kamosloki has also shown. As others have said, the Golem is the key to success here, as it helps a lot with its stun.

For Sea of Sorrow I used Hammerclaw, Sea Witch, 2x Deep King. My hoard level here was 199, so still not too high. It is also very luck based, as the Sea Witch can loop very well - if you get lucky. If you are unlucky, she just hands over the perfect board to the enemy. Also, the main unit is Deep King, but you can´t influence the enemies he is damaging. I had many tries, where I was able to reach the final battle, but didn´t make it, because my Deep Kings decided to kill every enemy except the enemy Deep King. And once he casts for the second time, you are basically done. However, if you get lucky enough to get decent loops with Sea Witch an kill the enemy King early (or deny his mana), it is at least doable.

Werewoods I finished just last week, my hoard finally was 221. I tried a lot with various teams, success came with a very simple approach of just 4x Torben. During various runs I found, that Torben´s skill is by far the strongest weapon you have. Creating a lot of skulls and reds AND giving hunter´s mark to the first two enemies AND giving you an extra turn (as long as you cast it carefully) is very powerful. A good Torben cast will often eliminate two enemies at once. So it is important to have at least one, better two Torbens, when going into the final battle. As your team will transform a lot, this is not so easy, which is why I decided to start with the maximum possible number of Torbens. Of course, there was also some luck involved, but I tried only once with the 4x Torben team, the very first run was successful.

I also tried Fang Moor without potions, but finally did it on a Tuesday. With high stats, it is doable, so it is just a matter of hoard level. My hoard level was 177, when Fang Moor arrived on a Tuesday and I had time on this Tuesday, so I decided to go the easy way. It was a cakewalk with 5 potions of power and didn´t require a lot of strategy, which is why I think, that you can also do it, if your hoard is just big enough. But “big enough” could be something about 250-300 or even higher here…

I did The Labyrinth and Hell Gate during their release weekends, so no idea on a PF run without potions for them.

[Kezef]

I’ve done three of the delves on your list pure faction.

I did Hall of Guardians at a toelrable Hoard level (mid-160s + 50%) using a double Gargoyle build and no Arcane Golem (but the Silent Sentinel to tank). It’s a pretty straightforward strategy – use the Ethereal Sentry to pump the attack of your allies and pummel the other team with repeated Gargoyle strikes, with a bias towards aiming at what you feel are the most dangerous enemies first.

I did Eldrazhor with a tolerable Hoard level (180 + 50%) using a double Huntsman build and no Deep Magus. It was also a tolerably straightforward strategy for me, using the Rogue to eliminate enemy attack from top to bottom, using Velenne to try and insta-kill enemies in order of how dangerous I felt they were and otherwise going bottom to top, and hoping for serendipitous status effect fortune.

I also made a point of medalling the Tomb Spider, because it can be very useful to “sacrifice” my “tank” Huntsman and letting the third trait (100% summon of Tomb Spider upon Huntsman death) give me a much more effective tank. You don’t want to rush the process and give up a potential damage sponge, but it’s not all bad. Also, pathing is worth paying attention to here, because it’s frequently better to go through the Tier V room in the middle rather than the stuff on the outside; if you’re using status effects and instant kill as a heavy part of your strategy, fewer rooms is a good thing.

I did Werewoods with a much higher Hoard level (265 + 50%) using a Werebird tank – what you lose in terms of defense you more than make up for with the Eagle Eye trait. In fact, that was a lot of my “strategy” there, Hunter’s Mark combined with skull damage rather than playing the transformation roulette much of the time. I’d cast the Werebird (or pretty much any other troop) to try and save it from dying, I’d try and hold the Werecat until there was enough Red on the board to attempt to loop it with itself, I’d try and hold the Werebear to escape a bad board, and I’d cast Torbern just for Hunter’s Mark if I had a four-match, skulls or no.

Werewoods is a pain because it’s a 5-room slog with a lot of random and generally a skull-bashing festival to boot. There isn’t a huge amount of “strategy” to be had, especially with how your team is going to “evolve” over the course of multiple rooms. Though it’s probably (a little) less RNG biased than a couple of other delves I could name.

[Helvellyn]

Ive done a few (6 i think) potionless at horde 100 but HoG is the only one on your list. The lineups already mentioned make sense so its just a case of being patient and persistent with a little bit of luck for good measure. The others i dont know because i opted not to boost my hordes above 100 so will get round to them during an event some time. The irony is that by the time we get the kingdoms to full faction boost levels (which will take forever as things stand (a little sooner for investors in campaign pass etc) for most players it will be too little too late because all factions will be done and dusted by other means.

[Hazard1]

I have heard about this Tomb Spider summon thing before and it was worded like “Let the enemy kill your tank Huntsman so that you get better tank” and that was absolute nonsense lol! Your wording here is a lot better and I like the don’t rush it part. The spider is great, that’s for sure but not worth sacrificing a troop great.

Anyway, I just completed Eldrazhor using double Huntsman and I have to mention I quite liked how you can spam with double Huntsman once you have eliminated the attack. This gives you more chances for lethal shots, and frankly it gives you two more troops to play with if things go south. It was not a run to be proud of but it got me through it and I tried about ten times with my earlier success team of two Rogues. I think double Huntsman increases your odds for complete run, all things considered. Just gotta take it easy at the start of the battles.

[Cronus]

Thanks everyone for responses. So far what I gathered (please correct me if I am wrong):

• Between Hall of Guardians and Eldrazhor, Hall of Guardians is much more manageable and therefore I should try that out first.
• If I want to keep hoard level 100 for Hall of Guardians or even around 155, my better option is to use the Golem (instead of dual Gargoyle) and rely on Ethereal to boost attack. But obviously, this has the downside that I cannot choose what to kill, so it might make things a bit more difficult.
• Everyone pretty much agrees that Hell Gate is not possible without a very large hoard. Too bad that I already have 221 hoard on that, however, it is better to keep it red.
• I could not get a signal for Werewoods one way or other. Some say it is doable, some say too much trouble and RNG, so for now, maybe keep it red.
• Very little discussion on The Labyrinth. I only head about “Death mark” strategy, but other than that did not hear much about how much re-order messes things up.
• It sounds like that I under estimated Eldrazhor. I should probably turn that to yellow if not red. It looks like the “reduce attack” strategy is still valid, but low chance of getting instant kill and fights potentially taking too long is a challenge.
• On that end, it might be better to move “Sea of Sorrow” earlier in the list (maybe after Hall of Guardians) since it seems more straightforward (although still RNG dependent).
• I also got little for “Fang Moor” but looks like it is doable with large(r) hoard. Given that I am already floor 500 on that, maybe I should also invest on that (although I am really running low on treasures).

Anything I missed?

[esslee]

WEREWOODS
Hoard 275

strong text

[esslee]

[Djimbalimbl]

Concerning your second point: I am not sure, if I understood “I cannot choose what to kill” right, but you are still using one Gargoyle, so you still have a way to target specific enemies. And of course, in the boss room it is essential to kill enemy Gargoyle as fast as possible. Ideally, you stun him first, then you can kill him faster, as he can´t reduce spell damage anymore.

And about Werewoods, it was the last delve I finished. I kept it until the end, because I also was afraid of doing it, as it is so random. However, it was not sooo annoying to do. Yes, you need luck to win it, but at least the single runs are fast. You are using either hunter´s mark or enrage or both and then skulls, which results in fast kills. While it is still not a lot of fun to do it, I would say, it is by far not the worst in your list. In my opinion for sure more attractive than Eldrazhor, Labyrinth, Hell Gate and Fang Moor.

[Cronus]

Okay, I finally reached to 500 for Eldrazhor, however hitting a wall (at least feeling like ).

I am using dual Huntsman as suggested:
Huntsman x 2 / Rouge / Matron

Although I can make to the boss room (2-3 times), I never managed to make to boss room with full team (most of the time a single tomb spider barely makes it), which ends up me getting pulverized in the boss room.

More importantly, I lose a ridiculous amount of time in the first room due to Rouge being Stealthy (and therefore cannot be targeted to reduce their attack) before I can kill enemy Deep Magus. Doing this requires getting lucky with Matron’s attack, which takes time and effort.

Am I doing anything wrong? I am already hoard 155, and seriously considering increasing the hoard to keep my sanity

Thanks!

[Hazard1]

You are not doing anything wrong. The hoard increase doesn’t help you that much I’d say, or you would have to increase it significantly to get some actual value out of it. You can just go and preview the hoard levels to get an idea how much more stats you would get.

What you can do is to try to run double Rogue though. It is not anything better than double Huntsman but it will give you ability to steal more attack because if you think about it, this delve is ALL ABOUT mana blocking and luck with lethal shots. With mana blocking, sometimes you have to keep picking those green and blue gems even tho your Rogue is already full, so two does not hurt. That’s why I think hoard does not really matter. You can’t buff your magic that much that it would make big difference and you don’t need that HP boost if you can steal the attack quick enough.

It is one of those delves where you have to keep banging your head on the wall. It will eventually happen.

[Cronus]

I was actually about to post an update but I am finally done with this!

Completed with the following team:
[6948,6948,6947,6950,3053,2,2,1,2,3,3,3,14016]

Hoard level 156, kingdom bonus 50%

The trick was to get to the final room with:

Tomb Spider / Huntsman / Rouge / Matron

This gave me enough survivability and luck was also relatively on my side to finish things up.

That being said, this faction is RNG-fest to the extreme, if you are trying to do it without potions and low hoard level (I would say anything below 250).

• You can get lucky or unlucky with Mortan’s instant kills (yours and enemy)
• You can get lucky and unlucky with Rouge’s 3 random status effect: e.g., it can inflict lycan to the enemy, turning them into a somewhat powerful beast (while they had 0 attack) or enemy rouge can cast stun + deathmark on your huntsman, killing it 2 turns later without summoning Tomb Spider.
• You can get super lucky with Huntsman explosions when the first enemy troop has attack (which you will HAVE to at some point) or super unlucky.
• You can get super lucky with medal of orpheus or not (I equipped 2-3 of them depending on the room).
• You can get super lucky or not with how and when you web enemies (since it would reduce spell damage as well or reduce attack removal).

In my run, in the middle room, I got the Goblin Throneroom. It was not the easiest one (Fizzbang is stealthy and stealthy troops ruin this faction ), but I managed it.

I think it took 5 tries, but felt that it took a lot more because the tries are not fast. Especially the first room can really take a while since you really want to take out Magus with Matron if possible so that you can start reducing attack of enemy Rouge. This can be super fast or super slow again depending on your luck.

In my final run, I believe I lost one huntsman (due to deathmark?) in the first room, and then lost nothing in the second room. Then, I lost a tomb spider and a huntsman in the final room by the time I killed their huntsman (and tomb spider), but by that time, most of the attack was already reduced to 0. Then, I believe their Matron turned into a beast (lycan really messes this faction up too) but that was not a big deal. My Matron sniped their Magus, which was super assuring and once it was down to their Rouge only with 0 attack, that was pretty much a guaranteed win. At the end of the day, for me, Tomb Spider with 4x (web + hunter’s mark) was MVP in terms of dealing crazy damage.

Another one is down, 5 more to go!

[Cronus]

While typing Eldrazhor, I realized that I totally forgot to mention my victory against Hall of Guardians.

Hoard Level 155, Kingdom bonus 50% as well.

Finished with the following team:
[6622,6620,6620,6622,3067,3,1,1,1,1,3,1,14004]

I started with Golem strategy, but for me, it did not work. Having a single Gargoyle and the fact that you cannot afford a second cast on enemy Gargoyle in the boss room is a deal breaker. I just could not arrange the order of events combined with trying to mana starve enemy.

Then, I tried: dual Gargoyle / dual Sentry (in that order), which went super bad as well. This, I believe is because in this setup your Gargoyle’s are subject to the same splash damage and also once your main Gargoyle is gone, your second is super vulnerable.

Finally, decided to move the second Gargoyle to the final position, which worked the best. That being said, I will be honest, my winning run was also quite lucky with my front Gargoyle not losing defense, at least quickly (so that I could boost it with Sentry), skull skyfalls, and Gargoyle casts. So, with the same luck, maybe another run would also work, who knows?

I cannot remember the middle room in my successful run. However, with hoard 155, you would end up in the boss room with almost the full team in this faction majority of the time. The tricky part, in this faction, is to avoid dual Gargoyle cast in the boss room, since that is pretty much fatal. Also, the fact that their Silent Sentinel silencing your front Gargoyle is no fun Still, the advantage of this faction is that runs are super quick, so you don’t feel that you are wasting time. The teams are pretty tanky, however Gargoyle splash damage is super high and turns things into “cookie cutter” regardless.