Lets talk about the Orbweaver class

OP ≠ broken

Some great ideas here.

1- I really like this IF the devs stop neglecting soul generation and retroactively balance the summoning troops accordingly. I would think that troops that summon on cast would all have to also generate souls (with the interesting side effect of not being able to summon on their first cast).

2 - Could work if it doesn’t mess up Giant Spider too much (it really benefits from magic link; EDIT - I had Spider’s traits all wrong, I could dig stealthy being swapped for Big or Venomous; of course then it would only be fair to offer refunds for Giant Spider, since most people will want it to not be stealthy a la Bandit).

3 - I’m against removing the bless or death marks from L&D, which define the faction. I’m 50-50 on getting rid of the enchant affix - it’s what lets L&D teams get away with subpar mana generation (somewhat uniquely), but I don’t think L&D is an overpowered weapon in general. I think the random unearned summoning is stupid and unfun to play against, not the weapon.

4 - This is a creative solution, but I worry it’s too much of a gimp of Orbweaver, a really mediocre class otherwise. The main value of summons are as a comeback mechanic, and it would be weird for Orbweaver to lose its summons at the exact time it needs them most.

2 Likes

I think the main reason people are asking for a change of the current LnD-orbweaver combo is not because it’s unbeatable, but rather because it’s extremely unfun to play against.

I would personally favor making giant spider stealthy, as suggested above, so after a certain number of enemy kills the hero can be targeted and disposed of.

1 Like

A suggestion I’ve made in the past is that summons should have diminishing returns on their percentage chance. Every time a trait successfully summons a troop, the chance of it working next time drops by, say, 1%.

Of course, the problem is arguably just Orbweaver’s trait, which is broken simply because 35% on damage received is insane. It completely sucks all fun out of the game. I end up having to retreat from fights that become impossible to end because of it. It shouldn’t be at the same rate as Backup. Drop it to 25% and I think major changes to summoning traits won’t even be needed.

Love those coming here basically saying “L2P cuz my L&D def in gw get killed”…

Maybe the L2P should learn to pick days where to put defs, my yesterday def and 1 of the champ that got similar (but she made a mistake enemy realized AFTER she was 6-1 lol).


Oh and just in case, i am not someone that got problem killing it and wanting it nerfed cuz cant beat it (proof below, last gw) STILL i recognize and have np admit that L&D + Orb is stupidly OP, while seem some others are gonna commit suicide if you take away their shiny toys (i dont have 3 nysha and my orb isnt even 100 or could do even better).

3 Likes

Some more thoughts on proposed solutions:

Such a harsh damage reduction would threaten to nerf L&D into irrelevance - there’s no way to boost the magic of elves, and the weapon itself has no damage-boosting effects. Other than possibly doing something with the enchant (which I discussed here), I don’t think we need to change the weapon for simply being good and requiring a different strategy to approach. The game would be very boring if we weren’t allowed to have different kinds of good weapons/troops/classes.

Since it’s a third trait, it has to be better than Golem Protector at a minimum. As I said above, I don’t think activation rates are really the solution, especially since the RNG in this game is unashamedly streaky.

That being said, I have far more of a problem with the Backup talent being 35% than I do with the Orbweaver Familiar trait. Backup randomly rewards my opponent for losing and punishes me for winning. I have control over how and when I damage my opponents, so activation of Familiar is under my control in most circumstances. (Even though I’m still being punished for doing damage, I can manage the risk, unlike with Backup.)

1 Like

Thanks again @Dust_Angel. Green Day here on Xbox, and I used your team vs Goblins and Orbweaver. Except of course I swapped Titan for Frostmage. I ain’t gonna use no Blue Mana user. (Don’t tell me Titan is designed to use Blue either. I’m in denial)

It worked perfectly. Well, one cast of Glaive made two Giant Spiders, webbing both front troops, so that’s still a thing. But bunny’s blessed removed that. Much obliged.

And vs Gobbos, 1 Bandit did spawn, but unless it’s untraited, it doesn’t prevent focus fire the way a spider does. So, not buying your argument @Mana_Surgeon. But we both are entitled to our opinions, and it’s doubtful the devs would act on any proposed changes anyway.

This happened to me as well except it was GW and it was over an hour long battle. I will never forget.

1 Like

Well there’s nothing more enjoyable than spending what feels like an eternity killing multiple troops in guild wars, 47 to be exact against the orbweaver meta yesterday just to win one battle. I was so engrossed in the battle, I completely forgot about having fun and that’s what games are suppose to be, right? :joy:

2 Likes

Without the L&D / arachnean weaver combo this topic wouldn’t exist. So it’s not a thread about the class per se; its a combination of class/weapon/support troop. Yes it’s annoying especially in wars but I cannot support any proposals to nerf this team. Threads like this completely wrecked dragon eye. In pvp you can ignore it and remind yourself that the majority of players CHOOSE to set annoying defs like goblins and L&D. It’s not worth all this drama when it’s only relevant a few times a month in guild wars. It’s not as if it’s a big issue when nearly everyone is chasing Geoff’s carrot in explore.

3 Likes

I couldn’t care less for guild wars, I was pointing out how much fun it all provides for the game :+1:

I wasn’t sorry to see dragon’s eye nerfed, although I don’t think it’s a comparable situation, the dev’s actions were mainly motivated by how easy it made high-level delves.

And maybe less people would choose explore over PvP if defense teams such as the Lnd-orbweaver one were addressed more quickly, instead of letting them grief players for months/years.

1 Like

The community were crying in their cornflakes about dragon eye. It got nerfed and suddenly became even more potent in pvp. More crying ensued and it was always about pvp not delve. I wanted dragon eye to remain because it’s a great leveller for new players across all game modes. But those who complained didn’t care about that. The end result was that dragon eye was castrated to an unusable state. If that’s what you want for L&D then carry on.

2 Likes

with the last 2 new hero classes not having stealthy, I’d much rather any change be done to Orbweaver and not Life and Death.

3 Likes

I just wanted to thank you again for sharing that team. I’ve used it exclusively in GW since February. I don’t know all my results, but I do know I’ve gone 119-1 in the past four GW, so, in b5 at least, I’ve had 20 wins. (I lost on a Red Day of all days).

My alts love it too. Most of them use it in regular PvP. If it works during GW, it’ll work on regular stuff as well. In theory. Communism works, in theory. I get my political insight from Simpson, Homer J.


I believe I said earlier in this thread that I substituted Titan for Frostmage. I use Queen B instead of Gobtruffle as well. I never know when a troop is gonna need a cleanse, and my scouts don’t always accurately relay which classes use entangle.

I did learn recently that Frostmage has a Lightning Strike, same as Titan. But I find Titan’s Dust Storm helps create Brown for Forest Guardian to loop.

Some might prefer Spirit Fox or Wild Queen on Green Days. I find those troops to be too random for my liking. And, if pressed to answer a homework assignment, I prefer to let others know that I am copying their work when presenting my answer.

The team is prone to misfires. One alt had already killed the Heroine, and had the opposing Queen B down to 84 health with no mana. All 4 troops were full of mana, 3 had barrier, but there was no guaranteed extra turn, and no skull match. So, after casting my Queen B, their Queen cast 4 straight times, followed by TINA leaving just a Rabbit to die a few turns later.

image

If instead of using the team shown, and replacing with the Queen B Guardian Variant, Converting Blue to Yellow would fill Forest Guardian. Maybe 2 Purples drop on left and I get a lucky lightning strike. If not, AI still goes wild, wipes team, no difference. Unless ai goes stupid, matches 4 match after 4 match and then casts an empowered that does nothing. I’ve seen that happen too.

The whole game is rng. Wild Queen can backfire. Spirit Fox can backfire. Sometimes my axe gets stuck in the first Elveses skull. That is why I carry a spare. And a hammer. And a great big fracking sword.

 I still prefer playing with and vs empowered troops.
 I still prefer playing with and vs Doom Skull Weapons.
 I still prefer playing with and vs Goblins and Wildfolk.
 I still prefer playing with and vs Elf, Fey, and Blue Mana using Classes.
 I still prefer playing with and vs LnD, RD, and any and all other weapons.

I like having options, not restrictions.

They said all an Orc had to do, was ride down to that Elveses camp, and swear as such that he’d be loyal to the Alliance, and he could pick up his satchel, and return to his home. Well, I ain’t doin it. Saruman may have had to surrender, but we sure as hell didn’t. We moving up to bracket 4 next wars.

3 Likes

wow, oh man, did 8 months go this fast. I felt like I made the thread last week or so…

1 Like

I just don’t get it with you guys. It’s a never ending cesspit of disharmony and yet you continue to play to a ludicrous extent and spend cash in the vain belief that this will preserve your 100% collection of troops. If you don’t realise the company philosophy by now then the addiction you face is way beyond your comprehension or potential recovery. Most players on here need to wake up and realise that every dollar they ever spent, every hour they ever spent, would somehow bring them to complete the game. It was not and never will happen. Your addiction simply accelerates new unsatisfying content to thwart every hour of your consciousness

1 Like

This thread is definitely worth keeping alive. Who knows. Perhaps the devs will take pitty on the poor players that still have to face orbweaver with L&D. It took 2 or 3 times to get the bone dragon nerf done right. It could still happen.

1 Like

LD is fine. Dragon eye was fine. Only players who can’t build counters have ever screamed wolf

I am actually one of those that miss the old Bone Dragon. Cuz he was goddamn fun to invade with hehe

1 Like