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Lets talk about the Orbweaver class

What is your opinion of the usage of this class in defense teams? Half or more teams I am up against in Ranked PvP is using this class on the pure PURPOSE to annoy and plague other players. As there is not any other reasons why someone would have it in their defense team.

We are even getting to the stage now where people wants to take revenge to those that are using the team in defense by using it themselves. I don’t blame anyone, but this thing that is ongoing gotta be stopped soon. As it is - it’s totally out of hands.

It’s time for a change as I am tired to refresh my battles when playing, because I do not want to spend a minute or so extra taking down Orbweaver teams. I think we have waited enough for a change now.

10 Likes

Nasty Elveses, I hates them all. Except during GW week. At least they reduced spider spawn to 35%…

2 Likes

No difference here at all when it comes to gameplay. Perhaps it is, but it must be so minimal that I can’t even tell the difference before/after.

I think the game in general has a passive summon problem, of which Orbweaver is one of the worst offenders. Summoning a full-stat troop for things like the start of a turn, one of your allies dying, casting a spell, or taking damage is, at worst, rewarding players/the AI for playing badly (at best, it rewards them for doing nothing at all) and punishing the other player for playing well.

I say the solution here is not to tinker with activation rates (which we all know are streaky as all get out). Rather, I say passively summoned troops should only get their base statistics. No kingdom bonus stats, no renown stats, no medal stats. Let them serve as a meat shield for a hit, two hits max, and that’s it. That way, they still provide some benefit, without prolonging matches to a ridiculous degree (as they do currently).

2 Likes

I do say the solution would be to change the Orbweavers skill tree so it does not have the Shadow culumn, that way Stealthy can’t be selected. Any classes that have such a rapid summoning chance should not be able to have Stealthy at the same time.

3 Likes

I’ve always been in favor of Summon control in the form of new rules.

  • Summons make the caster weaker in some way, if a summoner troop/hero summons more than ??? troops they’ve lost most of their stats.
  • If a player kills 11 summoned troops, that player wins the match.
  • Whether you win or lose, every troop killed > 4 is worth +250 points in Guild Wars.
2 Likes

Maybe. I wonder if counterplay might be a bit too easy without the stealthy though. As it is, Orbweaver forces you to cleverly avoid hitting the hero with light damage (especially via exploding mana generators), meaning you sometimes strategically don’t kill the troop in the first slot until you can do real damage to the hero. That kind of strategic variation is good, and would be lost if you can just freely target the Orbweaver hero.

I’m all for some creative solutions!

1 - could be a gimmick for certain troops, but I’m not sure we want to penalize players for summoning;

2 - love the idea of a mercy rule saving players from the ruthlessness of RNG, especially in PVP and GW; nobody should ever have to kill more than 11 troops in a single match;

3 - some manner of bonus would be good for the attacking player, though again there comes a point where this is penalizing players for summoning.

2 Likes

Umm, I once had a 57 min match just to see if we would run out of troops…I lost over 60 eggs, baby dragons and others, while killing 53 spiders. So, not going to do that again.

Dude had Firebombs showing, that’s what I get for not spending 50g to scout ahead.

Dishonorable, nasty elveses, they tricksy and false! Show firebombs—but really, they’re spiders!

1 Like

Orbweaver with stealth can be dealt with by position manipulation. If your troop attacks a person in the first 2 slots then move the orbweaver to first position.

1 Like

Stun beats almost anything trait dependant, like Orbweaver. (It also disables traits.)

Korvash, Obsidius, Highforge, Water Elemental.

1 Like

Assuming you can get it off before your troops die by deathmark, sure.

6 Likes

Yes, but one cast of life and death and the hero is stealthy, blessed, and empowered. And two of your troops are deathmarked.

My ideas to make orbweaver / life and death better, in my opinion any one of these would gmcreate an Achilles heel to give attackers a better chance without ruining the fun for those using it to attack.

  • Any summon requires spending a soul. No souls earned in the battle? No summon.
  • Make giant spider stealthy. Then, the hero can be targeted when only stealthy troops remain.
  • Remove bless or enchant from life and death weapon
  • Spider summon changes to only proc on damage to armor
3 Likes

Oh, and here’s a PvP team that can fairly reliably beat the orbweaver meta. Appreciate that this doesn’t help much for GW.

[6699,6146,1228,6473,3009,3,2,1,3,3,1,1,14007]

3 Likes

This long brewing issue…
Let me start off by this:

I may pity those who are too lazy or whatever to put up their own defence and thus probably always run with meta but I have absolutely no sympathy for folks i-use-the-very-same-team-i-always-complain-about - you deserve every single one of frustrating an annoying opponents you face.

As for Orbweaver (with Life&Death) in general - I don’t see a serious reason why any late game player would complain. Sure, it’s more tricky in guild wars, but in ordinary PvP - no real problem whatsoever (I never avoid a team; this week’s record is 301/11 and none of those losses were against Orbweaver in any capacity). Just use a few seconds to switch your attack team.

Absolute favorite, almost foolproof


Standard Rope Dart works just fine (once you kill non-stealthy troops and then drag Orbweaver to the top)

Against today’s L&D paragon (generally, a combination of AOE & skullspam)

and not to mention a bunch of different teams I’ve tried - some work better, some are slower…just use your wits.

But I fully understand complaints for early- and mid-game players who might not yet have troops to make at least one viable counter…this is the part where, unfortunately, I don’t have a satisfactory answer how to deal with the situation.

8 Likes

I like the first idea a lot - I know some RPGs out there have similar mechanics but I cannot think of them off the top of my head.

For the the other two ideas I think a less complicated solution would be to set a hard cap on the number of troops that a troop can summon in a single match, say 5 or 10.

Except when Doomed Club’s Carved misfires, a failing common to that model.

Thanks for sharing Green Day suggestion, and other teams as well. I’ll be sharing them with my guild as well. We’ll put them to good use. (Well, those that read chat at least). Thanks again.

Life and Death Orbweaver is particularly troublesome during Guild Wars because the troops you have access to in fighting it is reduced to a single color. Any troops that don’t have that color are useless, even if they were the best troop for it outside that color. Voice of Orpheus? Can’t use it on Green/Brown/Blue attack days.

Life and Death is a huge problem with Orbweaver because of several reasons that flow with each other:

  1. Orbweaver has a 35% chance when taking damage to summon a Giant Spider.
  2. Orbweaver is almost always played with Life and Death.
  3. Life and Death uses Black and Purple.
  4. Giant Spider transforms any color into Purple, but Giant Spider itself uses Green and Blue. Giant Spider also has Magic Link, gaining bonus Purple Mana for Life and Death. Giant Spider on top of funneling mana quickly into Life and Death summons a Spider Swarm, which uses Red Mana – which again doesn’t color block Life and Death at all.
  5. Orbweaver has Haunted Weave talent which webs a random enemy when summoning a troop. Now Orbweaver’s third trait reads: “35% chance when taking damage to summon a Giant Spider and web a random enemy.”
  6. Orbweaver has Stealth, so you can’t target it without stunning it.
  7. Life and Death Blesses you, so you can’t be stunned to remove the Stealth.
  8. Life and Death also enchants which is a ticking time bomb for when there aren’t gem matches. One purple match and a few turns later Life and Death is ready to cast again.
  9. Life and Death doesn’t just deal true damage, it also heals the caster.
  10. Then it Death Marks TWO targets.
  11. Then to pour salt on a wound, it drains mana from the first enemy troop, just in case they were full mana and ready to cast the next turn. Now you’re a turn behind getting the mana back to cast it.

If I was going to severely nerf the Orbweaver + Life and Death combination, I would take a nerf bat to the following things:

  1. Life and Death should have its damage reduced to (Magic/2)+1 instead of Magic+1. There’s no reason it needs to deal 1 true damage to two targets per Magic and heal for the same amount. That’s ridiculous.
  2. If it’s going to keep Bless, it should lose Enchanting. And I’m not sure why it has Lightning, that doesn’t fit its theme at all, it’s just an annoying way for it to ping off Barrier on the first two enemy troops.
  3. Orbweaver’s chance to summon should be more like 10-15%. Look at all the other summons in the game… Backup is 35% chance when an Ally dies. Hellsteed (Diabolist) and Wind’s Child of Sky are 25% chance when Ally casts a spell. Knowledge’s Golem Protector is 20% chance when you take damage (and Ancient Golem doesn’t loop at all!) Shadow’s Call is 20% chance when an enemy dies. Spawn of Hell is 50% chance when an enemy dies. Orbweaver is 35% chance when you take damage, and the troop it summons can summon more troops.
7 Likes

I’d just add to that, that hero talents and weapon upgrades often do very small amounts of damage or apply damaging status effects, which means that orbweaver’s trait has a lot of opportunities to trigger

3 Likes

I have to disagree that orbweaver nor life and death needs to be nerfed. In my experience, the life and death meta team, while OP, isn’t broken like the meta dragon eye team was. I play GoW on the Switch and we are behind you guys in the # of troops and weapons at our disposal yet many players have overcome the team in pvp. It is nowhere near what some players here have claimed in terms of numbers won. In Guild Wars, I had used it as one of my defense teams as well as faced it. While it won the most of all my defense GW defense teams (7/15), 2/3 of the players facing my team beat it. I’ve beaten it more times than I’ve lost against it myself.

1 Like