Immortals Sweepstakes!

[Dwuemka]

@Kafka

The main questions I have about this point:

1. Is it that you think Kukulkan is a good troop but no mythic is worth 2,500 Gold Marks?
2. Do you think it’s not a good Troop which makes the cost more outlandish?

I believe it’s the competition with “books of deeds” that we need an absurd amount of to upgrade kingdoms to level 20, which cost 100 each, is making 2500 GM sound outrageous.

Coupled with excessive waiting time for it to appear in the Soulforge (potentially as late as October 2025)… people feel forced that with pricing it as 2500 GM, you are taking away 25 books of deeds, that’s nearly all books required to get ONE kingdom from 18 to 20. It’s excessive by comparison. Irrespective of how good the troop is on its own.

[Sylwani]

You’re joking right?

First off 2500 is too much unless we are talking a freaking zuul type troop. 25 books!
Second this mythic is not a good troop. Compare it to some of the ones released recently. Takshaka blows it out of the water for example.

The third trait? Its a joke. 12 damage to a random enemy on blue match? Come on. We got a stryx that does something similar already and its barely used.

The ult? Very average. Just what “meta” do you think this is going to be a part of? I’m skipping this troop not only because of the laughable price for it, but because its not that great.

[Kelana]

@Dwuemka

The devs create all these methods and ways for players to get caught in the trap of “I need to play more than I do”, but it is up to the players to say “no, I won’t do that, I value my activities outside GoW more, I’ll play as much as I played until now, thank you very much”.

That’s a valid argument and at its core, I actually agree with you. But I don’t think it’ll take long before those Immortals become central to success in the PVE modes. Because once they’re available to enough players, the devs will ramp up the difficulty of the weekly guild game modes. See, Journey event. So at that point, people who don’t want to spend 20 hours a week doing PVP will fall behind. And they’ll find they’re less useful to their guild…it’s a snowball thing that starts slowly.

[Kafka]

@Dwuemka

I believe it’s the competition with “books of deeds” that we need an absurd amount of to upgrade kingdoms to level 20, which cost 100 each, is making 2500 GM sound outrageous.

Thank you for mentioning this, this is so important to know and take into consideration. I do my best to make these sorts of connections based on what I know myself as a player and from the other things everyone is talking about but the safest way is to spell it out for us like this

I had mentioned Kukulkan cost and the VP reset affecting Book of Deeds purchases but I had not linked those together in our report. I will make sure to include this connection as part of it.

[Kelana]

I cannot emphasize enough how very maddening this is. I have gold marks to spend but I can’t. Those should be based on lifetime points.

[Sylwani]

I knew it.

Ok, all the new mythic is is a souped up Zilopochtli. Its ALMOST identical!

Its third trait. identical but goes off yellow gems.
Its ult, is a non aoe of this new troop, almost identical.

So its really not even a new troop at all but a bit of a souped up old one.

So yeah. Very average mythic.

[Kafka]

When I earn it I’m going to make a killer team and then we’ll talk
You might be waiting awhile for me though.

[Sylwani]

You won’t be making a team with it because its basically a buffed Zilopochtli which I’d wager is featured in very few “meta teams” and actually apart from the aoe aspect, its BARELY better.

So not even CLOSE to worth 2500 gold marks

[Dwuemka]

@Kafka

I had mentioned Kukulkan cost and the VP reset affecting Book of Deeds purchases but I had not linked those together in our report. I will make sure to include this connection as part of it.

Thank you <3

Just to drive the point home…

This is where I am. This is how many books of deeds I need to progress with the kingdoms 2500 GM, for a troop that won’t help me progress with that specific kingdom beyond the current roadblock, is also making the price outrageous.

[Kafka]

Everything you mentioned in your earlier post is in the report but the VP reset was at the top of it!

[Sylwani]

Here you go. I knew the new mythic looked familiar so here it is. There is not much difference and certainly nothing to warrant the price. No meta team will use this troop. And I’d argue Zilo is better because there’s a greater chance of a loop with 12 skulls made.

And as an aside. Unless its takshaka/zuul/ctharr/stellarix level no mythic is worth that price.

[Maisie]

@Kafka

The main questions I have about this point:

1. Is it that you think Kukulkan is a good troop but no mythic is worth 2,500 Gold Marks?
2. Do you think it’s not a good Troop which makes the cost more outlandish?

For me: probably an OK troop, does not distinguish itself enough from other similar mythics to appear as a great troop.

But: yes, no mythic is worth 2500 Gold Marks. As others have said, the benchmark here is 2500 GM = 25 Books of Deeds; and those have far more utility to late-game players.

Also, to be very frank, the very high 2500 Gold Marks price to buy a troop now that will eventually cycle into the Soulforge at (we assume) a 4000 diamond cost later: that feels like whale bait. Who’s going to buy it now rather than later? The very few who are willing to drop significant real money on Gold Marks offers to have it.

And sure, there have always been way-too-expensive offers in the game – the “upgrade your new legendary / mythic” popup offers, for example; often these are anchors for setting a high perceived value.

But the Kulkalkan offer specifically, coming on the heels of the already very highly monetized PvP Season structure – in which it is already starting to appear that some Season Goals tasks will not be completable without additional purchases – this one just struck me as such a cynical grab.

[Zuul-Emo]

@Kafka

The main questions I have about this point:

1. Is it that you think Kukulkan is a good troop but no mythic is worth 2,500 Gold Marks?
2. Do you think it’s not a good Troop which makes the cost more outlandish?

1. No mythic is worth 25 books. No immortal right now is worth 25 books. Any troop in the game that was worth 25 books would be so obscenely OP and unbalanced that players would start quitting at the mention it was being added. That price tag is absurd.
2. It’s not a good troop. Honestly. It’s an absolutely MEH troop, but has a powerful third trait. Like several legendary and mythic troops, it might get added to the 4th spot on a team and never (or at least rarely) actually used, except by triggering its trait via other troops/weapons. But we already have troops that can fit that slot, so why bother with this one? If it was in the soulforge right now, along with ironhawk, and they both cost the same, but I had enough resources to craft just one, I’d pick ironhawk. Seriously, Kukulkan’s spell deals moderate damage to all (non-submerged) enemies which is likely doubled, and creates a worthless amount of gems, and it costs 25 mana to do that. It’s first two traits are fine, but really nothing special. The ONLY thing it has in it’s favour is “Sleet Storm”, the third trait. Compare that to other troops that damage via trait, and it’s good but nothing that great.

And sure, you can stick this in a team that makes it useful, but not more than several other mythics, which you can get for WAY less.

[TheIdleOne]

@Kafka

The main questions I have about this point:

1. Is it that you think Kukulkan is a good troop but no mythic is worth 2,500 Gold Marks?
2. Do you think it’s not a good Troop which makes the cost more outlandish?

---

Taking off my dev hat for a mo:
I look at Kukulkan and think it could end up central to a new meta, so while the cost is high it makes sense to me, it would be nasty to come across in an opponent’s team to me I think.

I’m going to be as charitable and fair as possible.

1. I think Kukulkan is a “good” troop. However, I also think its on par with every other monthly mythic. It’s not even a case of if everything is special, nothing is special. There’s nothing “special” about this mythic worth this Gold Mark cost.

2a. No Mythic being worth 2,500 Gold Marks is unfair to say, but the power level it would have to be would likely be harmful for the game. I would expect a 3rd trait that says Gain a Vault Key when you win a battle. or Gain 5 Gold Marks when you win a battle levels of game changing.

2b. If it was a 1 time fee of 2,500 Gold Marks, I think more people would be more (begrudgingly) willing to suck it up and pay the overpriced fee. see Gold Mark PvP pets that are now basically useless because of voting. How do we trigger them if their requirements never come up? However, 2,500 Gold Marks every season is highway robbery. Absolutely not happening.

2c. … This “cost” would have made more sense if it was 2,500 Silver Marks instead. Change my mind.

@Kafka

Taking off my dev hat for a mo:
I look at Kukulkan and think it could end up central to a new meta, so while the cost is high it makes sense to me, it would be nasty to come across in an opponent’s team to me I think.

Let me do you a favor, take a look at Phoenicia:

Far easier to get, costs 1 less mana to use and very similar effect. Your wallet and your time will thank me later. Kuku is never worth 2,500 Gold Marks.

[Darkborne]

Thank you everyone for giving our lovely lion here some evidence of why 2,500 gold marks is too high for kukulkhan. It was probably seen as a long term troop to get during the season, but people will be spending gold marks on deed books, so it doesn’t make sense.

I would just like to know more about how the dev team “prices” things. I know you can’t disclose sensitive information, but the time invested for seasonal goals is way too much just to open 3 burning chests. Not to mention, many of those goals require you to log in everyday, check everything, etc.

There’s just too much going on atm, and it feels like you guys don’t have the staff and resources to fix things, so you make careless decisions. One of our long time guild mates had to leave because it’s just…too much.

[Zuul-Emo]

There’s an entire post already on the forum, asking to know how much this troop will cost when it hits the soulforge, as promised.
Dev team,Please clearly tell us the cost of kukulcan’s craft in Soulforge - Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile) - Gems of War | Forums
Because right now, it’s insanely overpriced and people can’t understand how it makes sense. Either the current price is insane and there’s no reason for anyone to spend it instead of getting it in the soulforge, OR the future soulforge price will also be insanely overpriced to try and make the current price seem less crazy.
Either way, everyone seems to agree that this price is hugely overinflated for a troop nobody actually cares about. It’s really highlighting how out of touch the dev team is, when they seem to think this troop is way better than other mythics (which it isn’t) or that people will want to spend this amount on it (they don’t).

And yeah, comparing it to an existing mythic which is basically the same but better than the new one (it boosts the damage 1:1 from a far more common gem, and creates more gems of a more useful type, plus it’s first two traits are way better), just shows that the new mythic isn’t special.

[Rylea]

@Kafka

Currently feedback is mixed. Here on the forum it’s mostly negative and I have shared that as you all provide in depth feedback that is very useful, but we are also getting positive feedback and our installs and engagement with PVP have increased as well.

My personal engagement has been up too, but that doesn’t mean that I’ve enjoyed the update on the whole.

I like the concept of having things that take a long time to get. For example, I’m still working on leveling my kingdoms and enjoy the progression I’ve seen over time. However, I don’t like it when I have to play a mode that I don’t enjoy right now for various reasons. I reserved my judgement about how I felt until I tried it out myself.

I spent my entire evening after work on Monday doing nothing but PVP and I got to level 5. I can only afford to spend that amount of time maybe once a week, so I know that I will not finish the season. Thus, there’s no reason for me to buy the season pass (lost money for GOW). I’m someone who plays everyday, but I can’t do (nor do I want to do) the amount of pvp that’s required to actually complete the goals and the season pass. Additionally, what appears to me as a money grab, using fomo, disincentivizes me from spending money that I normally spend. I’ve decided I won’t be buying the campaign pass now or spending to get lanterns in the underspire because I’m really disappointed with the monetization in this new update.

My thoughts about the update and pvp generally:

1. The immortals are a cool idea. I like the idea of taking a long time to level things up. What isn’t cool, is that this troop which can be used for PVE and counts towards your kingdoms, can only be leveled in PVP. The troop should be PVP only (un-useable in pve and the various events) or there should be some way to level it outside of PVP. To be clear, I’d prefer to have the immortals used everywhere and burning marks/season goals be both pvp and pve.

2. Why don’t our teams save in PVP? This is the single most annoying for me in pvp right now.

3. The pvp store shouldn’t be based on season VP, it should be based on lifetime VP.

4. Some of the season goals are insane. Additionally, they strongly hurt people who can only play a couple of days a week, instead of every day. For a person who doesn’t play daily there’s no way to meet the goals.

5. The alliance aspect of pvp offers nothing. All it encourages is everyone being on the same alliance, which then devalues the concept of an alliance. Citadel wars should have been implemented as a war between guilds and not a war between alliances.

6. $15 for the season pass is too high.

7. Other games have a season pass but in those games the season pass gives cosmetics not actual pay to win versus other players. These troops when leveled will make the pvp aspect unfair.

In closing, I think the strongest thing I can say about how I feel about the state of GoW right now, is that I used to recommend GoW to other people because I thought you guys did a great job but now I won’t be recommending the game to other people because I don’t think GoW has valued my time or my money.

[TheIdleOne]

I find it funny they’ve done quite a lot of work to make campaign tasks simpler in terms of completion time…

but then doubled down to make pvp seasons exceptionally grindy for the average player

doesn’t feel like they learned anything.

strange times

[DracoL1ch]

Can we get a sneakpeek on the positive feedback just to make sure we (haters) don’t overlook something?

Maybe there are valid way to get A SINGLE immortal to lvl30 within a year instead of 20 years?

Maybe there are fix to your gamble machine to get more actually souls instead of silver marks?

Maybe there are specific calculations behind new mythic cost which explains how to farm gold marks that extensively?

Maybe there are hidden good concept arts for immortals and not reused already existing ones with photoshop filter?

Or maybe people love to get dropped to zero points to climb back every 3 months to get at least some passive income for 100s of hours wasted?

Or maybe, just maybe… Someone found your inability to provide at least short term roadmap regarding long asked features as a funny thing?

[sylverscale]

@Kafka

I give what info I have and that info usually comes from the players who aren’t happy because you actually talk with us about it!

The good thing is, if you fix some of the things like the insanely high cost for the mythic, losing VP, asking too much of players to earn season rewards, unrewarding stuff in the burning chests (which is everything except for souls - yes, all of it, even gold marks), almost all of the people who are already happy will be even happier.

A few may be mad that some people may now get things easier - but you can ignore those who think solely about themselves and don’t want others to have anything.

Basically nothing to lose in terms of making players happier.

Now you may think “sure, but what about making money?”

My main reason - that I have heard others echo - for not buying the pvp pass is that it is way too much work for things that could be very unrewarding.

Example, my burning chests. I had between 10 and 15, and I got only 2x souls. The rest was 5 icons (if I haven’t forgotten one), and at least 4x gold marks. That’s such a slap in the face and I’m not one for paying to be slapped. In fact, I don’t want to be slapped at all.

20 gold marks are insignificant to me, I can farm VP (icons), and also silver marks.

I’d more inclined to buy it if
A) it was more reasonable for the average player to finish
B) burning chests would only give immortal souls (half the amount of you think we’d get too much otherwise)

The mythics should cost silver marks.
Make it 5k for all I care. That’s something that will make people who really want it engage with pvp but it will be something that can be earned.

You won’t lose sales, I’m sure, as the whales will just invest in books.