I won’t get much involved in this as o do agree with some points from all parties
BUT please don’t compare games where skills, speed, strategy and patterns really matter to RNG based game 
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I was using it as an example not a comparison. Regardless of game type, having a singular end game item - boss, mini game, whatever - to be an ultimate challenge is one thing e,g. RPG superboss. But to have multiple items that foil/frustrate end gamers is another e.g. numerous Delves.
Just my opinion of course.
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I havent read everything in here yet.
BUT
I just got this, no potions, with a hoard bonus of 25%.
The bonus does make it easier, but not by a lot. You still need the RNG to be in your favor with drops.
Now to go read rest of the thread.
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And I assume a summoner on your team.
Yeah pure faction 1 of each of the 4 troops.
I summoned a total of 1 troop in the entire 3 fights though.
Right, but having 4 troops in your second match (still assuming) raises your chances of success immensely. Not to mention with All Seeing eye you have a skull spammer.
I could go off the rails with what’s possible with each Faction. But I to save us both sometime. The change that 4.5 provided was supposed to make it possible for success with every Faction (without hoards going over level 300). And that’s simply not the case. Nor will we ever get any sort of official statement as to what the hoard quality is designed to be to complete each individual Faction.
I distinctly remember Sirrian saying when Raids and Invasions came out. That they were designed that people doing tier 4 (or all guild members) will be able to receive all the rewards (if they use all Sigils and have success of course). But with Factions we’re constantly given the parameters with zero indication how much we’re supposed to raise our hoards to complete the delve. I’m fact, the devs tell us that potions weren’t intended to be the route to get Factions to 2500. But yet they consistently seem to be basically the only option for most of the delves.
If I’m having a hard time doing Dark Pits without potions. I can only imagine the hell that city of Thieves would be.
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Your basis for the argument is “Bonus to Hoard Levels isn’t helping me.”
Your actual complaint is “Bonus to Hoard Levels can help but it isn’t helping me due to the troops themselves sucking in this 1 faction I want to use”
Which is an entirely different complaint, albeit legit complaint.
Because it’s not. Look at your own All Seeing Eye hoard quality. Are we expected to raise every Faction that high? Does a normal end game player have anywhere close to enough quality treasure and gold to attain 2500 on every Faction? (Without doing Faction Assaults)
Which is pointless to argue. Since they aren’t going to change the troops at all. There’s more Delves it does little to nothing with than ones it actually helps with.
You are correct with the first two lines of your logic.
Players are paying to save time. Absolutely agree. Potion purchasing and speedrunning delve launch weekend clearly exemplify this.
Spending time instead of money is also spot on the money. That said, I personally believe that the game isn’t asking for both at once… not yet (and hopefully never).
However, the qualifier on that second statement in terms of delves is that the timeline for investing time into delves that isn’t at launch weekend could very well likely be years in length. I’m mentally moving towards a position where I believe that the “economical” method to clearing delves won’t be feasible until delves are finished being released, a long, long way time away that can be measured in years. And to achieve this economical result, players are going to have to clear a metric ton of artificial hurdles introduced over time (example: deeds for faction hoard bonuses) that will introduced with future updates to slowly build up the power levels necessary.
I personally wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if there wasn’t at least 2 or 3 more power “upgrades” planned down the line to slowly build up player strength to reach the intended power levels that high level delves were designed with in mind.
Or, players can throw money at potions at new delve weekends in the meantime.
The devs surely have figured out by now that if an option to spend near unlimited amounts of money exists to achieve an unrealistic goal, there will be players that will do exactly that.
Raid, Invasion, Tower of Doom, Delve Events, Class Events, Bounty
There’s plenty and its quite tiring to say the least.
Asking and giving into it are two separate things though.
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That’s not really quite the same thing as what’s being discussed in the thread. Currently weekly events were designed to be gem sinks to counter gem income from kingdoms and blue statue tasks.
Unlike delve launch events, players don’t have to clear the entire shop and then buy Tier 7 6-8x times at 500 gems apiece to even have a fighting chance those events in a strict 72 hour time limit.
Overly repetitive events? Sure, I’ll give you that. Honorable mention in your direction for Tower of Doom, as Doomed weapons encourage full shop clearing for forge scrolls and Dooms that block kingdom power growth. Not that surprised though, as it is the most recent new event type that has been introduced to the game.
I very seriously doubt that it’s going to get any easier going forward. The pending revamps of Explore and PvP are surely going to add a significant burden on top of a too-heavy workload as it is. I can definitely see a lot of endgame guilds “break” over the added stress, if the current trend keeps up.
It’s all well and good when new factions come out and we have 3 days to do them.
But Faction Assaults that are 24 hours take at least Tier 7, 2 times and clearing every room. (That’s what I mean by time and money.)
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Completely agree with you on that one, then. I forgot that the game offers potion sales on the weekly Tuesday Faction Assaults.
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A portion of this is correct I can’t see someone spending to tier 3 or 4 speed run anything unless you going for that 500 or leaderboard which requires multiple tiers 7. so spending doesn’t really save you time.
How does someone that spend gems to tier 3
Go faster and spend less time than someone that goes for tier 1?
Tier 7, 4 times makes levels 20-200 at least 4 times faster. That’s the base appeal.
That’s why I said only a portion of the context Is correct
Dont know if this was already suggested, but what about treating hoards like guild chests and guardians: Once you have all the troops at mythic, only treasures will drop.
I have about 50k shards, but I dont want to waste them for troops I already have.
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That is the most logical thing too do.u apsolutly righ about that. But keep in mind that we ain’t dealing with logical ppl here.
An easy solution would be to have potions on daily delves. But that will never happen. Because the devs know players will slowly grind up to 500 without them, then pay 1 time at a lesser rate to finish 1 delve.
That is much less “acceptable” than what we have currently, which is to spend a boatload of resources and devote at least a few hours (for the weekly event) or more (weekend event).
There could be several solutions to this:
- Make treasure hoard 500 actually obtainable for a reasonable cost and treasure expenditure (decrease gold, increase experience for all treasures)
- Increase this bonus from 25% to 100% and 50% to 200%
Also, for those of you who watched Salty’s stream, looks like there’s a mysterious new feature coming in 4.6, which might also change this whole situation.