It’s a very well-written post, @Mithran summed up all very well.
And the main thing for me: “All current real money offers it’s a way to catch up, offers with Deeds - it’s a way to surpass”.
I spent money on this game but for me, it’s like donations (I spent too much time in this game so it’s fair for me that I supported devs) - none of the things that I bought for real money is really needed. If I wouldn’t spend any money I would be at the same exact spot where I’m now - maybe be with fewer resources but it would be the same exact spot.
Flash Offers with Deeds is a different kind. It is basically “Pay or fall behind.” And that type of offers doesn’t produce good feelings.
It’s a very well-written post, @Mithran summed up all very well.
One thing we do have to note, even with a cynical footnote:
The rate is not fixed or set in stone. While the historical cases do seem to from-memory involve more “taking away” than “giving”, the devs can certainly change the rates at any time.
That doesn’t mean “shut up about it” but I still don’t really want to speak as if I know Mithran’s numbers are accurate. I don’t. They are speculation. In my heart of hearts I’m sure reality will show it’s an upper bound. I highly doubt the devs will be more generous than those numbers. But we don’t really have any reliable basis for how often the flash offers will arise.
I don’t mean to say “don’t complain until they release”, but make sure you frame your statements right. We cannot argue “they arrive too slowly” today because the devs have decided to disable deed distribution until some unannounced time this week. But we can say we don’t like the smell of it and don’t want to wind up in a scenario where everyone who doesn’t rush flash offers gets prizes for months that no one else can access.
I also think it’s valuable for the devs/publisher to see these monetization plans are very unpopular, and that the more up-front data we get the less anxiety we have overall. This thread slowed down very significantly once it was revealed we weren’t supposed to be getting deeds.
What’s different here is what Mithran just said: flash offers are a latecomer. Everything they’ve sold so far has been released in one form or another for months before the offers showed up. (Weapons are a grey area but let’s ignore them to stay civil.) That’s put some plausible deniability around them having a larger purpose of “pay to catch up” more than “pay to get ahead”. All but the most hardcore arguments find this an acceptable balance.
Since we’re opening the gate with “there will be deed offers”, they can only exist as “pay to get ahead”. Maybe you plan to, and have forgotten to mention, that deed flash offers aren’t scheduled for a long time. Again I repeat: players are less anxious if they know MORE, not less. Bickering over “a bad drop rate” is far less intense than “an unobservable, speculative drop rate”.
There seems to be one special case where this doesn’t apply. If something has been offered for cash at least once, things are very much set in stone. I believe that once the first Flash Offer for deeds hits the table, deed rates from the Adventure Board can’t possibly ever be raised again, because that would “disappoint paying customers”. Which I have grudgingly to admit is true, first monetizing a very limited resource, then making it widely available, doesn’t exactly encourage players to spend more money in the future.
What I like is that someone mentioned for it to take a year, or a bit over a year, (374 days to be exact), we would have to level a kingdom to 15 every 11 days. That’s 34 kingsoms x 11 days = 374 days, which obviously won’t be the case. Even if they offer a flash offer of 1 color deed a month for 4.99, that would only give someone 12 deeds extra a year, no where near enough to have that big of an advantage. The entire system is rigged to be RNG based, and the odds of us being able to level 1 kingdom a month to 15 are slim, which would be 34 months for all kingdoms to be 15. In truth, I believe it will be closer to 1 kingdom every 2 months (if we are lucky), which makes it more like 68 months to get all kingdoms to 15. Because of this I really wish they hadn’t given a timeline.
Kafka mentioned the deeds will be Random, and we could have entire weeks without a deed. So, it seems, we should all just play, and so long as we all do our Adventure Board tasks daily, we will easily stay competitive.
The concern over Flash Offers reminds me of the panic over Megavore… So many people complained Meg’s third trait was going to ruin the game. It didn’t.
Thats maybe the dumbest comparison I have ever seen…
You just compared a game breaking stat changing resource bought with real money…
To a troop that everyone had the ability to get and has an 8% chance to autokill 1 card. Lol
Terrible comparison is terrible.
Id add…this deed thing is so bad…the top 15 guild I am in has 10 people who are quiting as soon as a deed offer drops. Its just terrible game management and its greedy.
If they are quitting because of a Flash Offer, they clearly aren’t invested in the game. And you need level 15 to get 1 stat increase, so they are afraid of one person having 1 attack, or 1 magic, or 1 armor, or 1 life a tad faster?
Are people really concerned 1 stat point gain is going to give someone a major advantage?
It’s clear people think they are going to offer full kingdom level flash offers… But if people are quitting because of someone getting something they don’t have, I’d say those folks can’t care all that much about the game, or their accounts.
And when Megavore was coming tons of people threatened to quit over him, because they claimed he would ruin the game.
Megavore didn’t ruin the game. And a Flash Offer won’t either.
On your comment:
“To a troop that everyone had the ability to get and has an 8% chance to autokill 1 card. Lol
Terrible comparison is terrible.”
Flash offers are available to everyone, and everyone has the opportunity to buy a Flash Offer… So, I don’t see how it’s different. If you think something is going to ruin the game, and you threaten, or people threaten to quit over that something, well, I don’t see how it’s a bad comparison if that same thing happened around the release of Megavore.
Tell me how to buy a flash offer with gems and your equivalence can stand.
So unless an offer is available for gems, you don’t believe you have access to it?
If a person can buy gems, they can probably afford a Flash Offer.
Its not 1 stat. I keep seeing you say that, and kept waiting for someone else to point it out but alas it didnt happen.
Yes, it is 1 stat per 15 kingdom per individual troop.
But you also have:
- 50% bonus to delves
- 2 more tiers of kingdom stats bonus per 2+ troops per team.
Lets look at an example:
Because I have a team that uses them already, Wild Plains.
With NO pet that upgrades Wild Plains troops I have a bonus +3 attack with a Team Bonus Tier 2 for 4 kingdom troops. For the sake of science I upgraded Wild Plains to 11. Now I have 4 Attack and 1 Armor. Then when it hits 13 it will increase again.
Thats not just 1 stat per 15 kingdom. Thats an added, at level 11, extra 5 stats per troop, then add in the bonus from 13 it will prob increase an extra 3 stats (assumption based on 8 stats from previous buff) which is 8 per troop. So if I get that 1 kingdom to 15, and use that team, for the 4 troops from it, thats 36 bonus stats in that 1 team.
Now, when the Wild Plains pet is released, at Mythic it will give *3 bonus stats. So that +8 stats we have assumed, then becomes 25 stats per troop with the level 15 bonus as well not to mention the bonus stats that the Pet then gives the original bonus as well.
Its big enough to make people start building kingdom based teams, which some of us already do, to get the bonus stats.
It isnt a small issue of +1 stat as you keep saying. It could make a massive difference.
Im 100% flash offers being offered at the start. Yes I understand money is needed to keep it running, I get all that and have 0 issues with it. The issue I have, and I assume others as well, is the TIMING of when they are offered which is something everyone keeps speculating on. If they are offered later down the track, and given the 11 days per kingdom to be raised to 15 assumption based on the 1 year to finish all to 15, in say 6 months offering them slowly would be fine. Offering them at the start is the issue people have with it all.
My entire issue with this update is the pure 500 faction issues are being locked behind the leveling of kingdoms. Its enough of an issue for me, that depending on what happens when deeds release, may be enough to make me walk away from the game after almost 5 years playing, and the only reason I havent when it was announced, is it may be less of an issue than assumed due to how often they are released and how its all done that way. So I sit and wait patiently for it to be released into the game to see what actually happens and make an informed decision based on that
I don’t have a problem with people who pay getting to a goal more quickly than those who don’t. I just want to ensure those that don’t can get there in a reasonable amount of time. In this case the goal is leveling the kingdom to level 15. Otherwise people will get discouraged by their lack of progress. I’m seeing that somewhat in powering up kingdoms with my more recent account I started about 15 months ago. The hero in that is level 1154 and I play about 3 or 4 hours a day. Yet I have no kingdoms to power level 10. I have several to 9. This is not to be confused with leveling to 10. The limiting factors have been high level trait stones and now getting troops ascended to mythic to get to level 20.
Here getting some kingdoms to level 11 isn’t a problem, but I tend to spend stuff based on how fast I can get them replaced. It could be a year to a few to level 12. That’s not much progress. I’ll have to see how often they come up in the daily adventure board. BTW since that’s started I recall seeing just one mythic and a couple legendary (including the one yesterday).
WRT delves, yes either get rid of the dramatic gold cost increase or reduce it substantially. Having to spend 40-50k gold to use 5 cards and gain a couple levels is more than a bit steep. Frankly it destroys the value once you get the hoard quality level to 10.
Theres 5 magic kingdoms…thats 5 magic.
Theres also 34 kingdoms, thats 34 stats.
Add in the extra kingdom bonuses being mentioned. Your not following bro…
I didn’t buy gems to get Megavore. I used the game currency I get for free from playing the game. Every time I call the LB players whales, someone shows up to, “Well, actually, it’s really easy to save your free gems and make a leaderboard run!” So I’m probably not alone in using free gems to get content here.
As for the second part, nice try but I didn’t open this door. You are comparing a money-only flash offer to a troop that was obtainable for free. Yes, that means they are not the same thing. It’s not a matter of if one can afford to buy gems because you did not have to buy gems to get Megavore.
So again. Explain how I get a flash offer with the gems I’m given to spend as I please on free events.
First of all the comparison was people claimed they were quitting over Megavore. They said he was going to ruin the game.
Now it’s the fear of a Flash Offer that people are threatening to quit over. They claim it will ruin the game…
Maybe other times other than Megavore something came to GOW and people threatened to quit over it, because they felt it was going to ‘ruin the game’…
Did any of the previous ‘ruin the game’ things ‘ruin the game?’ I don’t know, I’m still playing, and it seems like a lot of other people are, as well.
I’m sorry if I misunderstood you. I think your concerned that someone that buys the flash offers might finish all 34 kingdoms a bit faster than yourself. I do apologize if we were referring to different timelines. the 1 stat point I mentioned was strictly based on one kingdom getting lv 15. I wasn’t thinking anyone would have 5 magic anytime soon, flash offers, or no flash offers.
The numbers are wrong.
I’ve always been terrible at numbers.
Oh yeah on that part I agree. 90% of “I’m going to quit the game” is bluff. The sunk cost is too hard, and especially if you’ve spent your PS4 pizza party money on GoW it’s not an easy door to close.
But I’ve got that AWR “player, not payer” spirit the past couple of months. Maybe I’m burned out and too stubborn to admit it. I don’t know what else to write about Deeds because I’ve had no opportunity to see the real rates and offers yet. When that happens I’ll have a better idea if I think it stinks or not. But as Kafka’s implying above: our speculative deed rates probably aren’t correct, and the rates are not immovable constants. For all I know the devs plan a slow drip for a few months, then a ramp-up after some larger thing is revealed. That’d make me regret an awful lot of time spent on this topic.
Again, I truly believe players are more satisfied when they know more than less. This whole thread’s arguing about what our imagination has conjured. Sometimes I forget we haven’t even seen a deed offer in the wild yet!
I agree 100%.
I want to print this out and frame it because it might be the first time we’ve reached any kind of agreement haha
We’re working with what we have. Don’t want us to draw conclusions, the only way is to give us the real numbers and that isn’t going to happen.