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50 Deeds is needed for 1 Book of Deeds

This still hurts to look at from time to time. Tell me that this can’t be right? Please tell me that wrong numbers were put in.

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According to some players and forum users when they announced Level 30 Kingdoms was one of their greatest game updates as of late!!!

Any critics/dissenting opinions about how it was a null aspect of the update were met with things like:
“Stop whining!!”
“O.M.G… Can’t you like SHUT UP?”
“Too much negativity in the forums.”

Of course, things changed since… Was it update 5.0? And people are starting to realize that their support to such things, in a sense, gave the devs the leeway they needed to keep pushing for things we don’t need.

And knowing people will disagree I’ll spare them the hurdle of writing:
“How dare you make such a claim sir? I challenge you to present ONE example or evidence that the player’s opinions can steer the developer’s decision making process.”

My asnwer: The most recent change to the trait of “that Class from Pridelands I don’t remember the name”.

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Wouldn’t be surprised if a future Shrine will offer books of deeds/imperial deeds.
Failing that, they could add yet another “pay to progress faster” feature which gave them for $$$. Maybe forge scrolls too, they could call it a Temple maybe?

I’m not giving 505 Games any new ideas btw, pretty sure they are already considering such “improvements” to GoW every future update now :laughing:

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Fun fact: if you’ve played every Adenture Board task ever since it was introduced you still don’t have enough Writs to even craft a single Deed, and you need multiple of them for even the lowest upgrade of a single kingdom. According to the devs the numbers are correct.

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It will take quite some time to get all Kingdoms to level 15. So I should probably not worry about the Book of Deeds that is needed at Level 16 to reach Power Level 24, but I can’t help it. It is worth to mention for each Kingdom, 2 Book of Deeds (100 Deeds) is needed just for Level 16, and 3 Imperial Deeds.

Then just for fun, lets take a minor jump up to Kingdom Level 17. It requires ONLY 6 Book of Deeds (300 Deeds) and just 7 Imperial Deeds. Let’s remind ourselves that this is just for ONE Kingdom.

Lets end this message with mentioning that we have to pay 300 gems for 2 Deeds if we get it in Daily offers.

I am horrible at math, but something looks so off here that both my belly and head hurts thinking of it…

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There’s another way to look at this. If you spend the next years buying Deeds from Daily offers you’ll be down several 10k gems and still don’t have enough to upgrade a single kingdom to 16, let alone any higher level. In other words, if you buy those Deed offers for any other purpose than to be able to reach kingdom level 13 a few weeks earlier than other players you might as well just turn your gems into gold, for better value. Kingdom levels past 15 aren’t meant to be reached yet, there will eventually be ways to obtain Books at less than 7500 gems each.

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(optimism active)
I am sure we will see the books as a normal event, guild task reward or sth similar in the future not only for cash.
The forge option is only to make the deeds not useless after all kingdoms are 15.

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And by then the devs might release their next brilliant update increasing the kingdom’s levels up to level 50. You just need 50 “Bookshelf of Deeds”, you can craft one using 30 Books of Deeds plus a new resource called Wood Planks.

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First of all it was 5.1 Update where Book of Deeds were introduced not before 5.0. 5.1 Update - Official News - Gems of War | Forums

In this update you also saw the vault upgrade. I know many are upset still with the drop rates of EVK but you are getting a lot more guaranteed vault keys for your efforts now and that does outweigh the EVK drop rate concern. But let’s move on to your other incorrect or wildly subjective issues.

I hope you go back and read on the 5.1 update thread. You will see t’s mostly negative comments. It’s overwhelmingly negative when it comes to the book of deeds. The positive comments were mostly in regards to the bug fixes and vault key changes. Most agreed the book of deeds cost to much and the concern was it was moving the goal posts again, years into the future for completionists. There were a few players coming out against the negativity but more so because there was no constructive feedback presented in those posts. Everyone has a right to complain. If done in the right way, it does make an impact and can change the game direction. But as we have also seen this year, the devs are going to do what they want to do regardless of the forum rabble rabbles.

lol, that’s the argument you think is best made against your post? I think it’s very well known that the developers listen to feedback. Sunpear change is a good example but there are countless others. I know the developers listen to feedback, but they don’t implement everything that is requested and I know they are less likely to listen to feedback if its hostile in nature. Sure, having mass mob protests like Sunspear can work, but they had protests for Epic Tasks and that’s still a thing. I think a lot of this is the player base not understanding how the game system works. Which brings me to the OP concern and your misunderstanding of how resources work.

Completely agree with this actually. As a resource gets devalued it will also become more easily obtainable. Now, this isn’t always the case (doom scrolls), but in most cases resources are easier to obtain over time. This is both to help newer players catch up and gives older players something else to chase since that resource is not something they need as much anymore.

Most resources when introduced are very scarce. It was that way for deeds/writs in the beginning. Most will argue it’s still very scarce but being in an active guild that completes Epic Tasks and all events, you’ll be obtaining those resources at a moderate rate. But that is subjective I admit.

They never said you were meant to upgrade all kingdoms to level 15 in a year after 5.1. They just set that mark, the players set how long it should take. Same goes for power levels. Upgrading the power level of a kingdom to level 24 will require that kingdom level to be 16. The first kingdom to get to power level 22 will be in March with most well after that. If the game is prioritizing power levels over kingdom levels, than it makes sense a majority of the game can’t get to level 16 on most kingdoms since it won’t be of use to power levels until late 2021 or 2022. So the idea that players should have instant access to kingdom levels makes little sense progression wise. It’s only the players who have very maxed out accounts that are the ones truly complaining about this. Same goes for those complaining about imperial deed offers. They are meant to be rare, just because you have a maxed account does not mean you should have it offered everyday, that is utterly ridiculous.

Once most players start reaching level 15 on most kingdoms you will start to see a deeds become easier to obtain (I would guess). Just like you saw with the orb change recently where you now have a 1% chance to pull a power orb from a major orb. I suspect down the line the same will happen to deeds/writs. There will be another way to obtain them and probably another resource to replace the current scarcity of book of deeds to keep things consistent. Deed Bookshelf!

The carrot will always continue to be dangled. If the carrot stop being dangled and progression is halted, a hard wall is hit(all kingdoms fully maxed and nothing to chase). That’s when the game would likely lose support. Gems isn’t meant to be won, only played. If that’s not something your FOMO can handle, than that’s on you.

TL;DR - Progression is intentionally slow. Older players will see a progression throttle or soft wall, while newer players will see quicker progression compared to when the older players played, but will have more things to catch up to long-term. Resources that are super scarce now, will likely be easier to obtain later when the required power levels are reachable.

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I do understand it just fine. The point is that I disagree with their priorities and of course someone would come here and ignore this point for the sake of attacking me for being the dissenting voice. This time it was you.

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Although there has not been an official answer given regarding your question, all of the tea leaves are pointing to “Yes, it is right.” I don’t see any real evidence personally that the 50 deeds → 1 book conversion rate is anything but intentionally set and is correct as designed.

Progression, in terms of kingdom development, appears to be designed at geometric growth rates in terms of effort required. That means that for subsequent kingdom star, further and further investments of time and resources are required than what was needed for that kingdom’s previous kingdom star.

Power 1-10 is the legacy system from the vanilla days of the game. Power 11-20 shifted to a geometric growth system, as reflected in the amount of champion XP per class that was required for each successive kingdom star (on top of other linear factors, such as weapons and pets). Power 21-30 steepens the geometric curve further by adding multiple individual geometric curves that all have to be conquered for every single kingdom star (increasing effort to medal troops to bronze/silver/gold, increasing quantities of books of deeds/imperial deeds to be acquired) on top of additional pets to be obtained and eventually requiring PF500 runs in every faction).

Likely working as designed. If a player wants free books of deeds, then that is what the free track on the campaign pass is for. If a player wants more books than that, then their options are either paying for the elite pass and/or purchasing/acquiring 50 individual deeds. The 50 deeds → 1 book is the “painful”/F2P route, while the elite pass is considerably less painful in exchange for a real money transaction.

I think this is unlikely, at least for imperial deeds. Maybe for colored deeds in the very distant future, if that resource becomes extremely devalued over time. During the Holidays advent calendar, there was a single (effective) imperial deed (as 1000 writs) offered on one of the days. It was offered at $25 USD. That’s too expensive for 99.9% of the population to pursue on an impulse, especially as a repetitive purchase.

This. As a player who has all kingdoms at Level 14, and maybe half-ish at 15, each player has some control (especially so for end-game accounts) over much they want to invest in deed-type resources to accelerate their kingdoms’ growth. Players who argue about the cost and rarity of deed-type resources and do not invest in them will level their kingdoms more slowly than those players who do budget and invest in these resources. But, as you said, these players will get their kingdoms to Level 15, just at a slower rate.

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Your opinion is not considered a dissent when a majority of the player base feels the way you do, or at the very least, doesn’t strongly disagree. If anything the “boot lickers” are the dissenting voices. I don’t consider myself a boot licker or whatever you would like to call the neutral players here. I say neutral because I have good and bad opinions of the game, I just try to tend to be more openly positive here to counter the overwhelmingly negative opinions. I certainly don’t blame anyone (good or bad) for feeling the way they do about the game. I just took issue with your strawman argument in your first post and that sent me down a rabbit hole.

In the end I hope all resources become plentiful and goal posts move into reasonable range. I don’t see this ever happening, but If an update comes where deeds become farmable in some form, I won’t be upset that’s for sure lol.

So you don’t even agree or like the current direction of the game, you do this simply because you want to oppose people…? Because…?

I consider anyone who is opposed, or at least unsatisfied with the status quo and direction of the game from the past years as dissenting individuals. In a sense the developers are the power as they determine the direction of the game.

Of course it’s my fault…
The moment someone posts *“I hate teh color blue.” they are “literally” saying they hate everyone who likes said color and that’s enough to warrant anything including mockery because of a typo like teh.

Since it’s completely fine when players attack and troll other players AS LONG AS it favors the developers I can only say: Thank you for your contribution and enlightening conversation. I’m sure we will get involved in more of the same again when you decide it’s time to try insult me for no good reason at all.

Honestly, I am just concerned about how much NAGGING on the forums it will take to get there. It is absolutely insane to set the imperial deed and book requirements so high. And still no confirmation from the devs that it taking decades to achieve, at the current rates, is intentional. I absolutely loathe the lack of communication about their plans.

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In your favorite narrator’s voice: “Little did they know there are no plans whatsoever…”

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I will write it as i wrote when those were added:

Add current state of the game. KL16 and UP are basicaly “placeholders”. Something to point out and say: “look here’s the carrot for you to chase”.

My current point of view is: “treat KL16+ as non-existent, until there’s a reliable way to farm writs/deeds”. But that’s my attitude.

It was also stated when those levels were introduced, that they are “long term goals”, so i guess that implies this design was intentional.

The lack of customer-centric logic (or ‘existing-yet-hidden logic’, for those of us who have not yet observed the documented design patterns by this Company) has been once again confirmed by a Mod ref. Seemingly Mismatching Medals given World Event Restrictions:

At least their philosophy remains consistent, so we can et our expectation accordingly.
:blush: :vulcan_salute:

I’m inclined to agree with this conclusion. Hindsight is of course 20/20, but it does very much appear that the design regarding kingdom levels and above are accurate as implemented and are not placeholders.

That said, I’ve asked myself if the majority of the frustration on the forums is one of perception.

Consider two fictitious scenarios,

  1. Players can see future upgrades to level 20 for kingdoms, but reaching level 20 in any kingdom is not possible for five years.

  2. Players can only see up to level 15 for kingdoms. Once a year, at the game’s anniversary, the kingdom level cap increased by 1. After five years, kingdoms will be able to reach level 20.

Both scenarios reach the same endpoint at roughly similar timeframes. Which way is more acceptable for players?

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Nailed it with this statement alone. The big issue right now is players see that it technically is possible to get to level 16, especially if you bought the campaign pass and have book of deeds already for a few colors. The problem is just because it’s possible for a select few does not mean the cap automatically has to be raised to allow the rest to achieve what the top can. Alternatively, you don’t want the players at the top to continue pushing forward at will because that creates a power gap. Believe it or not, that’s one of the reasons this keeps this game F2P and not P2W.

I use the example of imperial deed offers because it proves this point well. Certain members here on the forums are claiming this is a bug. Since they have everything in the game and maxed out all things, imperial deeds must be offered because that would increase their kingdom levels and that’s all their account needs now. My counter to that is why would the game offer you an imperial deed if you have no kingdom power levels that require that kingdom level yet? It’s like the game offering you an epic troop to increase your power level when you are mythic or pet locked instead. I don’t know if this actually happens though so that may be a bad example, but you get the point. Just because you need something, doesn’t mean you should get it. This goes for imperial deed offers and regular deed offers. They are most likely RNG offers with a rare chance of showing up. People have just assumed the offers will always give you something to progress your account. I agree this is true, but only to a certain extent. I would love to see this cleared up in a future stream or dev Q&A though.

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As far as what information has been made public, Salty has stated on streams that the chances of deeds of any type appearing in a daily deal is purely RNG, although rates have never been publicly disclosed. Personally, I believe that imperial deeds offers have around a 1% rate of appearing, give or take.

Thinking about the perception issue, I had a jog down memory lane and remembered a similar situation from the past.

Newer players would not remember this, and most veteran players may have forgotten as well though the sands of time.

Everyone is accustomed to the Daily Dungeons and how they work.

However, in their initial implementation in 3.1, Daily Dungeons did not give not guaranteed diamonds. Instead, there was a percentage chance of receiving diamonds after each boss clearing.

The rates were for Monday - Saturday runs were:
Mini-bosses 1 and 2: 25% chances for 20 gems
Mega-boss: 50% chance for 20 gems

Such a successful roll for diamonds resulted in a screenshot like this,

So each day, a player could have walked away with as many as 60 diamonds, or possibly not at all.

Fun Fact #1: This is why the Sunday Daily Dungeon is called the Dungeon of Luck. With much higher diamond payouts on that day, smiling RNG could have resulted in huge diamonds payouts for players… or none at all.

After much feedback, the devs decided to remove the RNG element from the Daily Dungeons and normalized payouts at their long-term expected payout rates (ex: 25% * 20 diamonds = 5 diamonds, 50% * 20 diamonds = 10 diamonds).

Fun Fact #2: This was the last time RNG rolls were removed from player rewards in GoW.

So, in terms of imperial deeds, which is better? A 1% chance of an imperial deed appearing in each eligible daily deal offer (rewards have variability in their appearance rates), or a guaranteed imperial deed offer every 100 eligible offers but a literal zero chance of appearing in the other 99 offers (rewards are fixed in their appearance rates)? In the long run, both routes reach similar results. But, is one method better optically than the other?

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