Data collection for guild wars

Sorry, just back on this. It occurred to me that if one were to assume that Mana was in fact maxed out due to Empowered traits (as you said, unlikely), it would be akin to saying the bonuses for Mana Gen and Damage add up to .9, from your earlier equation:

Which I think can then be rejected, since it would leave that extra .4 that you mentioned unaccounted for :woozy_face::

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Basically, we now have an equation that can be verified or refuted based on others’ findings. Most of the situations I tested involve controls (no gen mana, max mana, max damage, etc). But if we really want to test it, we need weird cases, like max mana but 2:1 damage.

From a min-maxer point of view, we already knew how to get most points from one of the first posts: use day’s colors, win fast by overwhelming opponent and don’t lose a troop, earning yourself as close to 5.2 multiplier as possible, or 9800 daily points.

But from the formula point of view, only more data points will fully confirm or deny. Now to do my fights, including keghammer and possibly a loss, then come back with results.

EDIT 1 (4x Keghammer on yellow day):
3170 points, 1170 without defense bonus.

1170/250 - 1 = 3.68
Our color bonus was 48% so 4 × .48 = 1.92
3.68 - 1.92 = 1.76 (matching earlier Keghammer fight)

Damage dealt: 94 from keghammers
Damage received: 5 from skull damage
No mana generated (unless considering empowered, which would be 48)
Enemy mana: 12

Conclusions:

  • Damage bonus: max
  • Survival bonus: max (.4)
  • Color bonus 48% per troop (1.92)
  • Turns: 4 (50-4 × .01 = .46)
  • Mana bonus: max or 0

A) If mana bonus 0:
Damage bonus = 1.76 - .4 - 46 = .9 (as above)

B) If mana bonus is max:
Mana + Damage = .9
And from full formula we would have:
5.2 - 1 - 2 (color) - .5 (turn) - .4 (survival) = Mana + Damage
5.2 - 3.9 = .9
1.3 != .9

B is not possible so that leaves A as the only possibility. Thus, Mana bonus must max out at .4 and Damage must be .9. Q.E.D. :laughing:

EDIT 2 (Widow queen on yellow day):
Team used:

  • Mountain Crusher (Titan)
  • Widow Queen
  • Leprechaun
  • Emperinazara
    (No yellow troops so no color bonus)

Score: 803
803/275 - 1 = 1.92

Facts:
Turns: 12, so .38
Survival: .3 or .4 (guess we’re testing summons too)
Total enemy life + armor: 383 (384 from bloodthirst)
Total life + armor of sacrificed troop: 277
Total damage received: 39 [9 (3 troops hit by kraken trait), 1 (bloodthirst), 29 (skull)]

My mana:

  • 120 on troops
  • 228 gems exploded (includes values on troops but not wasted or unused)
  • 31 unused by troops
  • 12 from MC
  • 31 wasted
    Enemy mana: 26 (22 if discarding 4-matched brown that wasn’t used)

Just from mana on troops, 120/22 > 4. Even removing mana from MC, and incorrectly using the maximum enemy mana, 108/26 > 4. So mana bonus must be maxed (unless 4:1 ratio is not maximum)

A) At .3 survival:
Damage bonus = 1.92 - .4 - .38 - .3 = .84

Based on .225 damage multiplier, this means .84/.225 = 3.733 ratio of damage dealt vs received.

B) At .4 survival:
Damage bonus = 1.92 - .4 - .38 - .4 = .74

Based on .225 damage multiplier, this means .74/.225 = 3.289 ratio of damage dealt vs received.

I don’t see any way for the Widow Queen’s ally kill damage (277) to be included that would fit anywhere in that formula. Yet, if we disregard it entirely, damage should be maxed at .9 (closer to option A, which means any death subtracts from survival bonus, even if you summon something to take its place.)

On the other hand, maybe damage is maxed at .9 (as per fire bomb experiment in earlier post) but mana is the one that’s missing either .6 or 1.6.

Would be happy to hear anyone’s idea on what might be happening or what I might’ve overlooked.

NOTES: Both heroes has barriers that blocked some damage and Holy St. Astra had trait that blocked 25% of Widow Queen’s spell damage.

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Faced low guild today: first opponent had all troops < 20 total Armor+HP, so Dust Devil +3 Ironhawk meant 1298 points on single cast kill.

Next opponent had a couple of 20+ total Armor+HP, so the kill was with 2 Dust Devil +2 Ironhawk, 2 turns, opponent just did a normal 3-gem match

Score was 1369 as per screenshot: any idea why so incredibly far from the ~1430 max?
:thinking: :sweat_smile: :vulcan_salute:

Isnt the max 1560, not 1430? Since you took a couple turns, and the enemy collected mana, you wont be at max. @blindnighto can hopefully help with more precise info.

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1560 on 2nd battle? i REALLY need to improve my GvG performance then!
:sweat_smile: :stuck_out_tongue: :vulcan_salute:

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Derp. Right. Each fight has different number of points. Help Blind lol.

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The maximum multiplier is 5.2 per fight, so the max per fight is:
1300, 1430, 1560, 1690, 1820
for a total of 7800 per day (+2000 for defense)

Your data from first match matches what you’d expect: 250x5.19 = 1297.5, or 1298

Your 2nd match didn’t take into account the mana multiplier. Your team did not generate any mana (empowered troops do not count as mana).

This means that instead of the 5.18 multiplier you expected from 2 turns, i.e. 1425 points, you got 4.98 multiplier (loss of .2), due to generating less mana than the enemy.

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Thanks for the eloquent explanation: back to the drawing board for similar future cases.
:relaxed: :pray: :vulcan_salute:

I read the topic and it’s really interesting ! To be sure by the way, the current values are still :

  • 2 points for color
  • 0.5 for speed
  • 0.4 for survival
  • 0.9 for damage
  • 0.4 for mana ?

And what about a defeat ? I often see something like 210 points when I lose the first round, and more likely 280 points when it’s the last round. So the bonus value should be around 0,8. How it is counted ?

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You missed the 1 for winning.
E.g. the formula on this page https://gemsofwar.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000340936-Point-Scoring-for-Guild-Wars is:
FINAL_SCORE = BASE_SCORE + BASE_SCORE * (COLOR_BONUS + SURVIVAL_BONUS + SPEED_BONUS + MANA_BONUS + DAMAGE_BONUS)

BASE_SCORE = whatever value of the battle you’re fighting (250 for soldier - 350 for paragon)

COLOR + SURVIVAL + SPEED + MANA + DAMAGE = 4.2

So:
FINAL_SCORE = BASE_SCORE + BASE_SCORE * 4.2
FINAL_SCORE = BASE_SCORE * 5.2

MANA and DAMAGE are weird to track. There are many discussion in and out of the forum regarding what counts as mana/damage, whether barrier/submerge/entangle protect you and whether status effects count. But they add up to 1.3 (subtracting all the values you listed from 5.2).

Either way, all this can be boiled down to the following:

  • Finish the fight as fast as possible
  • Don’t your opponent get turns/cast/match skulls
  • Use the day’s colors
  • Win

If you lose, by definition you won’t get the WIN and SURVIVAL bonus. Likely, you’ll also have dealt less DAMAGE to your opponent and, if they looped you, you might also have much less MANA. As for COLOR, I always assumed it was based on the colors you went into the battle with. Meaning I assumed that if you went into the battle with 4 troops of the day’s color, your lowest points would be BASE_SCORE * (2 + TURN_BONUS). However, the page says

TURN_BONUS = How many turns it takes you to win

So that’ll require more testing. Unfortunately, it’s green day and the enemy teams are are very very VERY difficult to lose to because they are so low level and there’s no self-kill with green so I can’t test the color bonus theory. Will try again next way and maybe get some closure on points when losing.

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Hey folks,

I wanted to revive this one year old thread to maybe get some more details about the formula. But first some backstory to my research so far:

I read this thread almost one year ago and due to my nature and personal satisfaction I wanted to solve this puzzle the devs gave us here. I created an OO Calc sheet and filled it with my calculations and some research that has been done so far by @blindnighto, @Jonathan and @cyberkiwi.
Thx for your work

As a reminder the formula on the “official” webside is:

FINAL_SCORE=

BASE_SCORE +

BASE_SCORE * (COLOR_BONUS + SURVIVAL_BONUS + SPEED_BONUS + MANA_BONUS + DAMAGE_BONUS)

This formula is not correct!!! (Which I’ll proof later)

.
.

Due to my research I could figure out and confirm the following:

1st: Color Bonus (short: CB)

2 - (0.5 x Amount of troops and/or weapon in your starting team that DON’T match the color of the day)

Maximum Bonus: 2 x Basescore

2nd: Speed Bonus (short: SB)

0.01 x (50 - Actions performed by the player)

Maximum Bonus: 0.5 x Basescore

3rd: Survival Bonus (short: MTB)

0.1 x Amount of missing troops and/or weapon at the end of the battle

I’m pretty sure that summoning a new troop, once one of your troops/weapon died, will give the same score as no troop/weapon ever died. So it only matters how many troops are alive at the end of the battle.

Maximum Bonus: 0.4 x Basescore

4th: Formula

The 5.2x multiplier they could figure out was very helpful and is probably mostly correct since it gives me always the same results.
Basescore x 5.2 - Basescore x (CB + (0.5 - SB) + (0.4 - MTB)) = Your Score without the following:

5th: MB, DB & LB

The Mana Bonus (MB) and the Damage Bonus (DB) are currently still unsolved and there also must exist a hidden Loose Bonus (LB).

The combined MB + CB seems for me to be something between
0.01 x Basesecore and 0.3 x Basescore

6th:

The LB is a bit strange and gives me headaches.
My lowest score I could achieve by loosing on purpose was 102 points.
My highest scores NEVER went over the Basescore (Which is the proof for the false formula from the “official” webside).

7th:

I was also able to proof that Deathmark and Devour you enemies are not that devastating as most people think since they still give you the full score based on the other boni.

8th:

What I’m currently lookin for and where I’m lookin for some volunteers to help me:

  • Lowest possible score
  • Winning battles but loosing several troops and have them (or different troops) all resummoned so you have a full team at the end of the battle
  • Loosing battles with several respawns on your side (Amount of respawns is important)

For all of the battles I need the exact endscore, which enemy type it was (Soldier - Paragon) and the exact amount of actions you performed.

Edit: If you have any suggestions, what else could be tested, let me know :wink:

The formula only applies when you win, not when you lose.

Each one seems to contribute [base score] * max(0, min(4, [your number] / [their number])) / 8

They only matter indirectly, through the damage ratio bonus. Instant kills don’t change the damage counter.

Doesn’t change the score, color gets factored in at the start, troops at the end.

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IF their formula is still correct, what I doubt.

But anyways I tried several attempts and lost on purpose with similar results.
When CB was 2 I got 203 - 206 points.
When CB was 0 I got only 102 - 104 points.
That leads me to an assumption that there is a specific divider of your score if you loose (or vise versa a multiplier if you win).