Afraid small guilds will lose their Veterans

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I’m a veteran obsessive player.
Yet, I hang in the same mid-low bracket guild for more than a year. It’s friendly , we have a lot of kids in it, or parent-kids combos.

I’d say we have maybe 3 to 5 big players (1000+ with full collections), then a dozen mid-range players.
The rest is new players, casuals, kids, etc, many under 100.
Our leader kicks out inactives, but we keep and help any newcomers.

We never make the 40k chest.
We complete maybe 1 task to 12, others stuck about 8-9.
Oh, the top 5, we know we could be in a bigger guild, get more task rewards, get better guild war results, and better guild chests.

BUT, we prefer helping lower level players, by completing tasks that gets them gems and keys.

Now. Raids.
The steps for portals are steep! I know top brackets guilds have finished everything. But mid guilds like us? We might not close 7.
If we do close it… we get… nothing special. Next orbs are too far ahead.

I feel like the rewards don’t scale well at all.

The goal, the big orbs, are a piece of cake for top guild, but just unattainable for learning , newer clan.
So… I fear a lot of top dogs in small yards are gonna be tempted to jump to bigger clan.

And so, weaker clans will just get weaker.
What guild will grab little guys who jeopardize their chance at the boss?
So the new guys gets stuck in low guilds, never reach any goals, and stay low.

I don’t know. I just think the scale is wrong.

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So if the new, less frequent members want better rewards they should play more often?
I joined a top 50 guild 2 months ago at lvl 60, right now I’m lvl 1120.
Lots of decent top 100 guilds have low requirements and are very easy going.
There’s nothing wrong with helping newer players get resources, but if they keep playing they will also be able to put in some effort after a while, no?
And if they don’t, in my opinion they shouldn’t be in a guild that completes weekly tasks.

But you do have a point, lots of new players want to be in a guild that finishes all tasks straight away, even though they are not able to donate enough to actually contribute yet.
Players will always be looking for better rewards in other guilds, just try to find your ‘core’ loyal members and when they reach high level they will be donating with you :wink:

Cheers

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I agree that players in general “reaps what they sow”, but @Venar’s post is mostly addressing the insubstantial rewards of the new feature… There are some good things there, quite unique in fact like a Vault Key for example. But the rest are just… poor…

See:

Requiring big investiments (in time and resources) that are not met with proper rewards tend to chase away players. And it’s aggravating for smaller guilds.

I believe the devs are just being cautious so far, the feature is totally new and it’s reasonable to set smaller rewards at first while collecting data and feedbacks in order to make proper adjustments. Having higher rewards at first and then reducing those would be disastrous.

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Yes, for me the vault key was the only reward worth putting effort into the raids.
I can imagine in a lower ranked guild with only a few end game players doing most of the work this can be pretty annoying, maybe the point requirements should be scaled to the ranking of the guild you’re in. But I don’t think this will ever become the case.

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Even pre-raids, GW was set up to best reward guilds with 25+ fairly active members. That’s how many members you need to reach 40k seals. Not everyone cares about 40k seals, but I think enough people who describe themselves as “casual” do it leads to this.

It’s a problem I sympathize with. I don’t think a lot of this game’s structure favors being “nice” to casual players. :confused:

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This is kind of the point I made to some of my guildmates. The rewards for the raid look very attractive to players in lower end guilds that don’t hit targets on a weekly basis. To players in the top few brackets of GW the rewards are terribly inadequate. The orbs are nice for ascension and traits but the traits are easy enough to farm and ascension comes with the massive amounts of keys we get anyway. Neither are very attractive to us. The orb of clans is a joke as is the growth orb. Needing 20 growth to make a major is absurd too. So the only use for the orbs is to try and get the power orbs to primarily use in the soulforge for the boss. The opinion of people in my guilds seems to be if they won’t give gems to entice us then diamonds would be the only enticement to play because we can use those in the soulforge otherwise we aren’t planning to do nearly as much in follow up raid events its just a waste of resources for little to no reward.

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Our guild was wrecked by Guild Wars, losing good players who did not like the pressure.
So now we are a lot less active, as a guild. We are down to one statue per week and not even reaching 20K seals.
We aren’t competitive when it comes to recruit new members, of course. We simply cannot afford to kick slakers, never mind honest casual players, because we cannot find others to fill the ranks. Our ranks are far from filled, in fact.
Raid is giving us zilch, not even seals, and we need seals, dammit, never mind how time consuming and mind numbing it is.

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My long point was that the rewards don’t scale well. Portal 7 needs better stuff, that portal is a huge step for little guild, probably the best they can do, yet: no Orbs, Keys or stones. Just 30 gems.
Might as well just aim for portal 5 since 8 can’t be reach.

Make portal 7 great too!

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30 gems is what you reap daily from your tributes, more or less. Just saying.

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We completed the last portal and I have got a major orb of growth. Wow, thanks. Its an insult and I can’t be arsed with this BS anymore tbh.

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OK actually yes, Ahtet hits something here I felt but hadn’t ever figured out how to articulate.

Each phase of the game is more or less marked by what matters most to your progress. Some of them sort of blur together, which is why we tend to stick to “early”, “mid”, and “late” game phases. It’s hard to define the phases, but this much is clear:

  • Early game players need gold to level kingdoms, and even a new rare might be a substantial boost. No resource is unexciting to them, not even gold keys.
  • Mid game players are more focused on legendary and mythic resources. They lust for traitstones and souls. Gold keys lose utility every week, and even glory keys start to get disappointing as they progress through this phase. There are kingdoms to level, so they lust for souls, but even this falls off quickly.
  • Late game players stop caring about these resources over time. They have enough mythics/legendaries that new ones aren’t exciting. They’ve spent enough souls they start to only spend them when a new kingdom releases. Lacking interesting targets for traitstones, they’ve hoarded enough to trait multiple new troops. Gems aren’t so shiny when you aren’t anticipating much from even VIP keys.

So this struck me as the strangest thing about orbs from the start. Orbs replace large amounts of resources. But only “early” and “mid” game players are excited about resources. Late-game players are much harder to tease. So I assumed orbs would be moderately plentiful, a way to boost players through the mid-game grind, which gets more and more difficult to overcome with every mythic/legendary that is introduced. It was clear to me from the start orbs held little value to late-game players.

But so far, evidence indicates orbs are intended to be given out in very small numbers almost exclusively to late-game players, or people who are late enough in mid-game to roll with those crews. The only way for newbies and mid-gamers to access them are to talk late-game players into letting them into the guild. But there’s not a lot of room in competitive guilds for dead weight.

So the rich get richer.

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This is so true that most of the discussion of orbs has centered around accumulating enough of them to craft Zuul - not even discussing using them for their intended primary purposes.

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Yes is big FY to guilds it would take 6 months to craft ZG, thats if the power orb was a guaranteed reward from portal 10.

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My guild is made up mainly if veteran players. Most of us are opting out of the next Boss raid. Instead we will be focusing more on the 750 snotstone PVP event.

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@Venar @Grimace Was correct in saying many top guilds have very low requirements. So low levels lingering in smaller guilds is more of a choice over a position. In that if they are active they could easily do the low requirements of some of the top guilds. Example, and only example here my guild has a requirement of 100 (at one point it was 50) trophies. I had many 100-200’s join and even level up in the guild. So low levels that linger in lower end guilds its more because of; either they are not very active, or they are not bothered by it. And it really doesn’t mean higher levels need to stay back to help them. Unless they are also not very active themselves, or they are also not bothered by it. It isn’t so much that they are unable, it all comes down simply to they choose to be where they are at.

I do disagree with the assessment done by @Slypenslyde at points. Resources are useful to all ranges just in different ways. Regardless if you are a initial game, mid-game, or end game player gold always has a value. Kingdoms, buying gold keys, buying resources if you feel like it, etc. Glory is good in the same way from grabbing the new troop(s) with attached arcanes or simply using it in shop. And end game players has such a huge difference to that ‘having enough legendaries/mythics’ is a odd choice. Sure if the end game player is a paid end game then this would most likely be true. Though many end game players are end game through time and effort, not because of the bottomless pit of a wallet. Some may even only spend very sparingly. So to the $0 end game player to moderate VIP end game player that buys only here and there. There is still TONS of legendaries/mythics to gain. I’m well past 1,000 and a moderate end game player. And I still have a huge list myself of troops I want, need, or need to trait up. The journey still continues for traitstones! I also know many who are free end game players or moderate like myself still on the same journey. Attaching that end gamers have a huge wallet and everything they need is simply a huge stretch. While this was not said specifically it also does not need to be assumed either. The wording is fairly clear which end gamer it was directed towards.

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Eh, you put some words about “pay 2 win” in my mouth. I think I’ve tried to make it clear in other posts I think GoW is a game where if you study the options available you quickly realize it’s stupid to try to buy your way to success. The amount of money involved is staggering, and for the most part you can only buy gacha pulls with money. I pointed out to one person that the money they bragged about spending could’ve bought them a new TV, a PS4 AND a Switch, several games, pizza, and beer for a hell of a party. Instead: they have probably 6-8 mythic troops in a single game. Much wisdom.

Other than that, I feel like I’m months away from “endgame” and already I don’t care about gold, souls, or glory. They’re all things I can either farm or don’t spend at a rate faster than I get them. I can farm traitstones with effort. I’m interested in diamonds and gems. Orbs can only replace one of those resources for me, and in the time I devoted to the raid this week I probably could’ve farmed more traitstones than the orb would’ve given me. Yawn.

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Your fear is unfounded in the current cost/reward structure.

  1. Launch Gems of War
  2. Examine and tabulate the costs in the Shop tab necessary to get obtain ~18k damage * 30 players (necessary to open P10).
  3. Examine the Portal rewards tab.
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La Guilde Tamriel est à la recherche de joueurs actifs pour atteindre le sommet de l’échelle. Rejoignez-nous pour vous amuser avec des raids, des guerres de guildes et des invasions. Nous sommes 651 membres avec 20 membres actifs. Toutes nos statues sont au nombre de 132 ou plus et ont le rang 58.
Si vous êtes intéressé dites-moi ici ou PM moi.

You can come if you want?

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Agreed! I’m guild owner & even though i left a guild coz people not doing wat they are supposed 2 do as a team, just me myself & i.but these new challenges are way 2 much 4so little!!