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Vault drop rates; violating policy with app stores on all platforms

Continuing and highlighting a side discussion from another thread: No Heart of Rage Support Group - #34 by sls

What are the drop rates for the Vault?

Since vault keys can be purchased with real money, the rates need to be public as per the agreements with Google, Apple, Amazon, Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft.

Here’s Google Play Store’s policy: Payments - Play Console Help
Apps and games offering mechanisms to receive randomized virtual items from a purchase including, but not limited to, “loot boxes” must clearly disclose the odds of receiving those items in advance of, and in close and timely proximity to, that purchase.

Currently in game, you can buy vault keys and use that to start a vault battle and get random rewards (a loot box).

Edit: Proof the game sells vault keys, aka loot boxes. This is fine to do, but drop rates must be disclosed.


You should sue them.

That’s an extreme reaction.

Hopefully the devs publicize the drop rates. Otherwise, people may report the game to the app stores.


Edited the post to include a picture of vault keys being sold.

Was waiting for this offer to come up so I could add it to the post. Surprised I only had to wait a week.

Devs, are the vault drop rates going to be posted publicly? Here is proof vault keys (aka loot boxes) are sold for real world money, which is fine, but the drop rates must be public as well as a result.


I suspect rates haven’t been publiziced because technically, a vault key ‘drop’ is just ‘100% chance to launch a vault battle’, whatever Cedric and the accompanying gnomes drop if one manages to defeat them (it’s not guaranteed for low level players, remember) is independent of that… For that reason I don’t think the clause you’ve referred to would apply here, unfortunately.

Your definition of loot boxes is inaccurate; otherwise this would have been changed long ago.

When a vault key is sold, unless you’re a terrible player (negligible concern), it’s basically 4 loot rolls - 3 treasure gnomes and 1 Cedric.
If 20 gem keys are sold, you know they have only ONE use, which is to open 20 loot chests.
Say they change the 20 gem keys to a new gem battle that drops exactly 20 gem keys as reward, which opens 20 loot chests, would you argue that it would escape the spirit of the rule?

FYI in Australia, loot box legislation has been discussed but to no conclusion. There is no legislation at all there AFAIK. Google Play and Apple App Store have their rules, but enforcement is not transparent and not automatic.

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This is my take on it. Otherwise, what is to stop any game from attaching a small quick mini game with a 99% win rate before opening any loot box if that’s all it takes to not be called one? Spirit of the rule was broken.

Personally I don’t have an issue with loot boxes. But they are gambling (spending money for a chance of a loot item) so I agree with the push to disclose rates. Transparency is a good thing.

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If we disregard loot box definition for a second: Is there any reason NOT to display these drop rates? The only reason I can see is that they don’t have a nice place in-game to display the drop rates like they do with everything else. Yet, they added an “in-game but out-of-game” page accessible through the blue question mark on Shrines specifically for the new major orb of chaos dynamic. Why can’t the same thing be done for vault keys?

Technically, one could argue that event tiers don’t have drop-rates either, but that’s a topic for another thread.

Speaking of other threads, found another that discusses this same topic, from when Daemon gnome came out: Why are the drop rates for Vault and event shop troops not visible to players?


I believe vault keys would be included in this definition.


Report the game to google and apple they have enough power to force them to disclose the drop rates. Also a google or apple representative can hep decide what is a vault key.