As more troops with spells that transform enemies keep coming there is yet to be any immunity to this type of spell which will undoubtedly lead to very troubling meta in the near future if nothing is done soon. Mayhaps consider barrier blocking transform and or traits/talents.
It wouldn’t surprise me the first troop to have a trait to block transformation will be in the underworld just to make levelling up that little bit harder for the higher levels.
Not even craftable Zuul has that luxury for some reason.
Someone in my guild suggested it should be a race trait like dwarves fortitude and elves ancestry traits. Mayhaps mech’s should be immune to transform
Maybe make mech’s immune to transform at adana faction launch?
Next Friday will release a new mythic which has 3 separate 20% chances to transform troops… just wanted to preemptively bump this thread because no troop is immune to this type of spell and it’s only a matter of time until PvP is overrun with meta that have no counter besides luck. Please do something about this before it becomes an issue, a few simple solutions could be 1. Barrier prevents transform 2.impervious prevents transform 3.a new racial trait that grants immunity to transform. Just suggestions but even the dragons eye builds are becoming annoying when there is nothing but luck to stop it from doing it’s thing. (Oh and good job with the nerf on dragons eye so that delves are not easy anymore that REALLY HELPED SMH)
Funny enough, the new player owned Doom troops have Raid Mode Zuul’Goth immunities, aka it has immune to transform.
I haven’t seen info on these? Where are they posted please
Except those troops (Again, craftable Zuul doesn’t have Invulnerable despite the BS requirements!!!), are mono colored and have exceptionally high mana costs… so unless you were to have a full team of Doom’s, the Possessed King could easily still ruin one of your other troops.
I couldn’t see those troops being much of an asset to combat the impending onslaught of transform defense meta well on their way. Cool 6 mono colored troops with stupid high cost… and I could think up usefulness for them, sure, but it would involve troops that could be transformed and thus strategy becomes useless.
Gandhi once said “Be the change you wish to see in the world” however I ain’t down with no hunger strike so I decided last week tuesday to add to the problem I wish to see fixed and came up with this build, deep borer/dragons eye/gimlet/king highforge ((bear banner)) in hopes it would be proliferated in pvp. 5 days later I’m seeing more and more of It! Might have helped I trolled global asking Kafka if there’s plans to address the issue which of course the answer was something like “not at this time, but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen” and then boasting about my PvP results with my build (atm 357/147 defense!). So I urge anyone interested in helping to make something happen to either clone this build or make something better so… put down your firebombs and help make this a reality please! Side note king highforge has been replaced with the possessed king. Enjoy and thanks to anyone willing to help.
I’ve got to agree with you, it is now stupid.
We have a Titan Dragon’s Eye with 50% mana, barrier on brown and 1 (yes 1 brown match of 3 gems) away from mana surging to fill. Odds are high AI will fill, keep the turn and then cast, transforming one troop into a manaless Baby Dragon. There is the chance that Dragon’s Eye will re-fill from the gems it explodes xx - probably 17 minimum gems and then turn a second troop into the same thing. It might re-do the first transform too, but chances are greater for it to not. Also we get a brown storm to help the hero loop brown and re-fill.
The hero is basically immune to skulls on turn 1, will usually have barrier back up on turn 2, and also has stun to fall back on to negate any skull based damage if you actually hit him. So unless you can keep the turn forever, he will always fill.
One troop I have tried on it is an enraged Webspinner. I have to run a dispel class, Mech for example (which is nowhere near as good as most others) and if i can hit a 4match, fire Gimlet and match green to brown and have skulls up, I can with a great starting board kill it before it casts. If it casts it is more or less game over.
So looking at the Titan talents, inflict stun when hit with skulls, barrier on brown, counter attack - gain attack when hit, lightning strike, explode when matching yellow and to top it off fortitude trait at 100.
So, unless your troops are impervious, or have thick head/enrage (1 hit), hitting him will ruin your traits.
He will have barrier anyway. So basically he is a 1 man team, a wreaker of havoc. Your best chance is an enrage based team, Urskya troops or hello Wrath, but Wrath likes brown, so the board gets full of brown. Or maybe a silence based team, maybe TSO in slot 1. Silent Sentinel if it wants to be dumb and skull hit you, but it doesn’t match skulls as there’s so much brown on the board.
Not quite as bad, if your enemy is not Titan they could use Frostmage, not quite as brilliant, BUT when Eye casts, the likely outcome is 2 of your troops are frozen. One at the start, one from a cast and you still get some nice things, albeit no barrier on brown.
So looking at the teams he appears in.
You take a peek at his most likely companions - Rock Troll - Stoneskin/Immunity to Devour, 12 mana from doubling the brown on the board, inflicts stun with skull hits. Just a tremendous troop really. Lacks only fortitude/insulated. Also comes half full courtesy of Titan… so 6 gems from doubling brown by matching reds/purples. Guess what there is a 2 brown, 1 red banner and a 2 brown, 1 purple banner and ofc a 2 red, 1 brown banner. So you could even fill RT on turn 1 as well as Eye very easily.
So when enemy kicks off it will have barrier up, 7/15 for hero, 6/12 for Rock Troll, a brown storm most likely, and with double brown banners, a 3 match will give enough to fill if it surges. When it fires, it will have an incredibly high chance of exploding a yellow gem with a 4 match and usually both Eye and Rock Troll are now full again, even if turn passed over. Frostmage works well when this happens.
There will be barely any red on the board for the transformed baby dragon and very soon, Rock Troll, if he hasn’t already will probably put about 15 browns on the board, filling Eye and then…
Scorpius, will be nearly full, will have raised stats on the Eye so it explodes more gems to re-fill itself and Euryali has poisoned everyone not immune with any 4 gem match.
So if you get the turn back, you are minus 1 troop, Eye has barrier, Rock Troll is tough, Scorpius will kill both of your last two troops soon unless your team has impervious or fortitude (effectively running Dwarves or Impervious/or specific poison immune troops in your team, or any turn accessible cleanse like Voice of Orpheus - !).
Other choices for your opponent, Gimlet, already ready to convert green to make more brown for Eye and the board/storm. Grave Seer, ready to fill RT and Scorpius on any green to purple. I’ve seen other stuff, Megavore instead of Euryali, even Weaver and moving Eye to slot 2 and then popping webspinner if Troll dies.
Now, Dragon’s Eye is not being used for Dragons… You can’t counter it. It’s not like Famine was even though strong. It is not like Nyxbringer where you could negate Mab, or Freeze first, or outdamage it, deny greens.
It is not like Divines where you can outheal Ubastet’s strike, or stun DP (ofc then it became a Titan) or even kill DP.
It is not like the Flamifier/Yao/Titania/Tai Pan thing where using Glaycion or any red transformer will ruin it, hello Anu’s Sceptre for example.
It’s not something Dust Devil works with that well as RT is a tremendous top troop. You basically need 3 DD goes to get Euryali up there. Pull counters with say Chief, Leviathan, some others and Hero weapons, reduce your team overall, and Dust Devil really does.
None will be fast enough to stop DE. Hell I have been running RT (or MC) Weaver, Megavore/Magnus/VOO to good effect, but that team has weaknesses, counters - one being it is slow.
I have ran Bulette teams, but they like brown. I have had winged bison up there - woaah, it’s the only one that isn’t feeding brown! Everything flails on barrier on brown, unless you can dispel, inflict great magic damage or hunter’s marks, even then you have to really use an impervious troop/hero Titan to get anywhere.
So it is truly something that is wrong. I hate calling for nerfs, I prefer finding a counter. There isn’t one.
Invulnerable, but how many troops will get it, not a long term answer.
I would suggest a counter and something like a ‘reflect’ type effect. 100% chance to transform enemy into a 100% full Dragon, 75% chance to ‘kill itself’ unless we get invulnerable effects. Or something that is 1 shot only. Also change it’s colours, like say blue… or red and purple.
Yep it worked in delves, but it has been neutered in Delve but in PVP it’s silly. It’s a gimmick now become something stupid.
well said, you covered quite a bit there friend! ive offered a few simple solutions which would make sense like a racial trait for mechs that gives them immunity to transform in addition to a few other things similar to the elves ancestry traits… cuz i mean really you are turning something mechanical into something biological??? how much sense does that actually make lol… a spell effect such as allowing barrier to block a transform as well as a talent are all very viable and sensible solutions in my honest opinion
Easy solution, barrier without much to do, but imho there is too much barrier in the game and I think something else, maybe like you say the Mech race having immunity to transform.
Crescendo Hero - Mech
Weaver/Megavore (ok not so sure on mechs, maybe something that fills to take brown off the board - Steam Turret)
Not that great a team not infallible but would be a counter with your idea.
And this is why I hate pure PvP Event mission weaks. Hero class traits either need to be disabled or significantly weakened because as it stands, it is just unfair. If they want to keep Dragon’s eye the way it is, make it x% chance to work instead of guaranteed or make it Maw like when, once active, it can’t be used again.
i just think that having any mechanic be it a trait or spell effect which nothing is immune to creates an imbalance in the game… you gave an example of maw which spell has 100% devour and can only be cast once, however, THERE ARE TROOPS WITH IMMUNITY TO DEVOUR… i dont understand where the dev thought this would be acceptable in all honesty. its not really so much unfair in my opinion because everyone has access or can gain access to said troops/weapons etc. its just imbalanced and needs to be fixed before things get worse than they already are. last run of guild war i had 3 losses, 2 of which were to dragons eye build defense soldiers, talk about demoralizing.
Seem basically your prob is the scorpy team with DE (i agree that DE is the worst weapon to face in pvp).
With Greed, Bronzelock, famine and cedric (Kracken banner and tytan myself) can kill it most of the times (from second turn usually i can fill famine each turn and seen i need brown too usually the ai dont have them on it’s turn, sure isnt the fastest of the teams seen basically you kill them with you lil pistol and use famine tokeep them oom).
Btw actually of the teams you mentioned the one that wiped me more times on his first turn is the taipan/yao etcetc, not sure how glaycion can counter that seen it cost 20 to cast andstart at 0 (at least with the classes i use) unless maybe you use wrath, glaycion, gimlet and mercy, won several matches where the ai was unable to take any turn with them.
But actually seem even more the problem is the titan and not the transform.
the build i put up here and have been running since tuesday is deep borer/dragons eye (was frost mage switched to thief yesterday)/gimlet/king highforge (switched to the possessed king yesterday) and my current defense win/loss is 375/156 so i dont really think titan is the problem nor that specific build per say but rather the fact that transform spell effects have no immunity to them and no way to counter.
Yes and no, hero classes make DE anything other than a gimmick. We never saw DE until recently, it’s the filling of it behind barrier and it’s 100% chance to not be countered, plus almost insta fill. There is no counter if goes before you and it is very hard for it not to.
In relation to Greed and co, it’s a team combo I have used a bit, albeit with something different instead of Famine. However you rely on exploding to fill. It’s extremely easy to beat when its on defence for example and it can self destruct very easily. In fact Webspinner will kill greed with 1 skull hit.
Vs the Flamifier I have lost on first turn yes, even with a Mercy loop team.
Alchemist or Gimlet (or Glaycion)
Megavore (i don’t have Doomclaw, but that would work).
Orb Weaver Hero - Dawnbringer
Web and skull them, sacrifice Web with Widow Queen - everyone has a summons Drawbacks are if some twaddle pops in slot 1. It has great survivability vs YG. Also web on 4 matches slows YG down as does Dawnbringer. All spares fall into Dawnbringer so it fills quick. No cleanse in Flamifier team.
Weaver/Megavore/Suna (or Mercy to refill Shock)
if using a hero, use a 50% mana class and Crescendo and drop the Sphinx.
Take Red or Green with Shock - Shock will almost always go before them if you get a 3 green or 3 yellow match using 2 green, 1 yellow or 2 yellow 1 green banners and fill it. You can often get YG with a green strike first, or go for the reds and bounce fill Tesla to fill with their reds if they cast and QT will be close to Weavers range, and YG webbed to reduce damage.
If Diviner survives ofc.
Grave Seer (Hero - dispel class, Writhing Staff for anything else)
Gimlet (Weaver if i want a second Webspinner at any time.)
I have used that team with a lot of success vs it. Usually because Webspinner will kill Flamifier with skulls as AI looks for reds first it seems. I just need Glaycion to go and it’s game over in that team.
I’ve also used Wrath, Glaycion, Mercy, TPK over the last day.