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This should be interesting.

I’m pretty weary of this thread, and I can see it easily turning heated and abusive, not just towards the developers, but also towards other players. I’ll be keeping a close eye on it, and if this happens I won’t hesitate to close it.

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Ok, close it now then. You have my permission to do so.

This is stupid.
They have just as much reason to lie as any other company in the world.
2 possible scenarios.

  1. They don’t have any reason to lie, so there’s no point in doing it.
  2. They do tell a lie, but it’s because it’ll hurt them financially if they don’t. Which we tend to forgive in the business world.

Further more…
Being wrong about something is not lying. Nor is honestly describing that you don’t like something and then still doing it is any more of a lie than the truth.

Assuming this topic is summoned due to a quote from Sirrian. Be mindful of how we choose to react.
We demand more transparency and communication from the devs. We get a candid response from Sirrian. But then the literal second something comes out that doesn’t support his stance…we as a community crucify him for it. He is not going to throw 505 under the bus… So he will just take the abuse. Then 6 months from now we’re wondering why we don’t hear more from the devs more often. 🤦🤔

While I’m on this weird dev support kick. I would fn love an eta on new patches. But I can’t because of reasons like 3 days ago. A faction event was planned… For whatever reason it didn’t happen. More than a few of you were outraged because “you made plans to do the Faction that weekend”. And thus crushing my heart to any hope of more transparency about patches being released.
Be mindful of how you react and treat the devs. Because you could be screwing over others by doing it.
As someone who’s yelled at the devs a lot. I get the frustration the players feel. But come on already… We have a way to craft 99% of the weapons for free now. Period.

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I think the Devs are indeed honest in what they tell us. I don’t think they ever give us bad info but there are inevitably going to be moments where they can’t share a behind the scenes reason why something is (or can’t) happen(ing). And people will like to call that lying, but I don’t view it as such

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I like when people argue over gem sales, saying it’s just bonus gems and a sale has lower prices… yet at my supermarket buy 1 get 1 sales are run often, and it is a sale the 2nd product is free (100% off) and that’s the discount. The bonus gems you get are (100% free (just the bonus portion) when you buy the base product. So if you where to buy 1000 gems and 505’s sale gives 50% more (500 gems (1500 total) then the 500 bonus gems are discounted by 100% with the purchase of the base bundle. Anyhow no disrespect to the OP or Devs (whom I agree with) and I understand there may be a better place for this post but every sale I see a thread of how it’s not really a sale to which @Saltypatra and @Sirrian created an entire thread once to address this, again, thanks and sorry for the time

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As a LGoH refugee for 8 months now, I embrace GoW devs as an Oasis of Salvation
:blush::vulcan_salute:

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I do not. I don’t think they are allowed to be, and i blame the publisher for that. Insofar as they speak for their own work, perhaps. But they can always absolve themselves of anything the publisher does by omission. That’s what i don’t trust.

Can’t vote in the poll for some reason.

Feeling like an idiot, but how so I vote?
I think the Devs tell us as much as they can, and I believe the info they give us is accurate.
I ran a division with 350 employees. I wanted to share everything, but often my hands were tied. I also learned that if things go off the plan, even if those things were caused by snow storms with which we had no control, people would get angry.
I like our Devs. I like the interaction we can have. I like that they know us.
Does anyone really think they are sitting back and feeding us lies?

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@Saltypatra It didn’t devolve (yet) - So Please, Pretty Please, close it now.
It was not that constructive to begin with and will not be missed.
Further proof:
AWRyan is onside for gods sake!!!
QED

Also, when is the patch dropping…? :wink:

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After the staff is done recovering from shock. (I’m shocked as well.)
Made me miss the days of when the devs I consistently got a long. Hopefully this is a sign towards peace again.

If u are instantly weary Salty
I recommend the gym, their energy drinks are better than coffee anyway

I think there are better questions to ask that would negate the need for the trust question:

“Do you think the devs love the game as much as we do?” Yes!!

“Do you think the devs are as invested in the longevity of the game as we are?” Yes!!

Q.E.D. … An earned level of trust.

Lastly, I for one have noticed an increase in communication and transparency from the devs recently which is great. It helps us to be more empathetic and see that we are all on the same side.

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Honest is a bit too serious topic here. For me, they just need to improve their communication skill, be more open, direct. It’s not that hard to admit that " I did something wrong" .

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As angry as I have been, I think limiting this thread to a “Yes” or “No” is unwise.

In the end I think it comes down to hard lessons in communication. Sirrian could’ve said, “I don’t like paywalls, but some game content is going to be behind them and that is beyond my control.” We could’ve been told, “The cash-only weapons will be a burden to collectors, we will ensure the powerful weapons have an F2P path.” It would have also been prudent to say, “By sheer coincidence, the first craftable weapon looks really bad, please wait a few weeks before you yell at us.”

We get a lot of that information through Salty. I think she usually has to be vague enough I don’t think we connect the dots between everything. Due to professional obligations, she probably can’t be as direct as I’d like. I think that hurts her ability to communicate.

Do I trust them? No. That doesn’t mean I think they’re liars. I think either for marketing reasons or professional reasons they aren’t allowed to tell me the whole truth. That means I’m inevitably going to make guesses about the blanks that are false, and feel misled. I think their tongues should be allowed to loosen.

It’s kind of like a parent whose kid is asking them an “adult” question that requires discussing topics the parent would really rather avoid. Some parents face the problem and have as honest a discussion as possible. Others try to dance around it. In this case the devs could be facing, “I’m fired or disciplined if I am honest”. It’s hard to blame someone for not telling the whole truth in that scenario.

But it’s frustrating I have to understand the devs may not always be feeding me the whole truth.

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I guess, too, it’s good to keep in mind how feelings work within this.

I felt angry when I misunderstood. I lashed out due to that anger, so did a lot of other people. I felt lied to and like I couldn’t trust Salty anymore. That gets me in the mood to spread that anger, and trying to control that urge is apparently one of life’s great challenges.

Later, I got more information. I was still a little angry, but it was a different anger. Instead of feeling betrayed, it came more from a place of disappointment. All of my bad feelings could’ve been avoided if we were given the detailed explanation before the patch. This kind of miscommunication happens a lot in GoW, and the results are always the same. The unfair side of this bargain is I think it’s agreeable, “It’s easier to expect the devs to learn from it than the players.”

Now that I have more information, I’m not as angry but the disappointment will linger. I said some things that probably hurt devs. I know I should feel guilty or apologize, but I’m also not certain they know or appreciate my feelings on the matter either.

I really hope the next time there’s some fast-but-big change, we get the details before it drops. Otherwise this is likely to repeat again, and I know I’ll go through the same anger -> lashing out -> disappointment -> guilt phases again. The older I get, the harder I try to avoid people who do this to me. It’s not healthy for me, and I do things that hurt them in response. It’s easier for me to avoid it than to change myself to avoid the “lashing out”.

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they have been honest with what I have been asking for so yes I do trust them even though I don’t always agree with their solutions.

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We are human, and we do get hurt. That’s the reality.

Our schedules don’t always allow us to investigate every minutiae in detail, which can lead to situations like this. We made the change we intended, and one that was largely asked for by the community, but we weren’t expecting to receive such a strong backlash over doing something that fulfilled the perceived need of old weapons being unavailable. It can be especially hard when things blow up outside of standard buaienss hours, and our community demands we answer them even when we have been working significantly more than is sustainable.

I don’t believe that lashing out is appropriate behaviour in life in general, and is something I deeply regret and am ashamed of when I do so. I think that approaching situations and people with an open mind always ends with a bettuer result for both yourself and others, but I understand that thss sentiment is not always shared, and can be hard to enact when one is having a strong immediate emotional response.

You may not always agree with our decisions, but I have endeavored to be as honest as possible about this situation, and have pushed for what changes I could. One of these is the re scheduling of tee next Sin or maraj weapon, so players have an easier time increasing the kingdom power level without feeling the need to speed up this process by purchasing old weapons.

We are human. We are tired. We try our best to please ourselves, our publisher and our community, but it isn’t always possible to make everyone happy.

It’s now 11 pm and I need to sleep. If it’s hard to extend us any empathy or kindness right now due to disappointment, hurt or anger, I understand. However, please do your best to extend these things to each other, including other players who may disagree with you.

Edit: I know there are typos in this post but I am to tired to see straight so you’ll just have to live with them.

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I find this thread futile as it doesn’t have an objective to at look at to.
On the other note as @Saltypatra said above we are humans. We all have different expectations and personally When it comes to trust, I don’t trust anyone that I haven’t met and discussed a matter with face to face. Other than that benefit of doubt is given when not abused

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