Was going to update the list, but not much has changed really since December. The new guild guardians were good for several legendaries, most notably Sekhma and Taloca. But I don’t think they were improved enough to change their tier standing; that said, I’m open to arguments to the contrary.
We also received Krampus and Captain Macaw. I would start them both off in C, as they are both gimmicky instakill troops (albeit better than the last one we received, Dullahan). Krampus is one of the more reliable instakill options, with a 2/3 chance of a good outcome, but its risky to cast him on damaged troops, as you could replace them with a full-health demon.
The newly-announced Darkstone Mythic could change the equation for Captain Macaw; she is rogue-type and looking really strong. Even though Macaw’s tools don’t complement her at all, 50% start alone would make Macaw instantly relevent, even if his spell never gets cast.
There’s talk in another thread of legendaries that need buffs, and I wanted to weigh in/raise the question here:
Gloom Leaf seems to be surprisingly popular. I have a hard time seeing a use for it on offense, do people find it useful for defenses? The lack of skull reduction makes it fail at its primary objective (first-slot troop), though the impervious+thorns trait combo make it likely that it’ll take down whatever kills it. The spell just isn’t very good; stealing a skull’s worth or so of armor and 16 attack at best for 16 mana. If it stole enough attack to actually hurt the enemy’s team, it might be more interesting, but I’m not seeing it as a useful troop in its current incarnation.
Psion was formerly great, but has similar problems to Gloom Leaf - it can’t function as front troop well in the modern game, making the third trait useless. Its damage is terrible too. The mana-draining aspect of its spell could give it a niche, but we have so many other mana drainers now that I’m not seeing it. Open to persuasion on this one though.
Garuda and Viper do have bad traits (particularly Garuda), but their spells are much better than the D-tier troops, and the new guild guardians can be used to even further boost their damage.
I would love to see all old troops that used to be great (like Gloom Leaf and Psion) get a rework so that they’re really good choices again. I think the main thing that makes troops obsolete over time is troops that have a capped, “hardcode” number—Gloom Leaf’s Attack stealing being just plain 4, rather than 4% (or something else that would scale), because just plain old 4 nowadays is nothing compared to the pretty significant something it used to be.
And not that I mean to derail the thread, but the percentages-thing had me thinking it could be a partial delve-troop fix, too, since people lately have really been on about delve complaints; a stat gain of 9 life for Deep Vitality is basically nothing. “9% of my life hoard-stat” added in addidtion is—suddenly—something to be pleased about, and it doesn’t even have the adverse effect of ruining PVP or any other game mode (or making the defender harder) because it’s limited to helping the player only in true-faction runs, basically.
Just some stray thoughts. Hope they’re not intrusive—I do enjoy the tier list debates, and like to chime in from time to time to say as much
I agree that Gloom Leaf could most assuredly use a rework. Psion has definitely seen better days as well but can still be somewhat functional. It’s squishiness makes use of it’s Legendary trait risky but a lot of teams are using front line troops with no skull damage mitigation these days. The classic use of the tank (e.g. Gorgotha) up front has been significantly diminished with the host of empowered converters and Doomskull spammers. Psion’s Magic Link is solid and Alert is not terrible. There are a fair amount of mana drain resistant troops now but not to the point that it makes Psion unusable. It is no longer great but it is better than many of the other D tier troops listed.
I also agree that Garuda’s spell is pretty good but his traits are horrible. They are so bad that it totally diminishes his usefulness. Viper’s spell is OK - if not for the charm aspect, it would be dreadful. However, her traits are pretty bad. Arcane is nice but her spell only strikes a single opponent so even a ton of looping won’t boost her damage too much. Her last trait is laughable compared to other Legendary traits.
You are correct that the new guild guardians can help both of these troops but I was trying to look at them in a vacuum when trying to ascertain their overall usefulness. If you look at some of the D tier Legendary troops outside of a vacuum, I think some of them would climb the ratings a bit. For example, on a gold spamming team, the subpar Gog and Gud can be a real force.
The one troop that is currently D listed that I question is Behemoth. It is nothing to get overly excited about but it’s spell does some AoE damage (roughly equal to Garuda’s) and it generates some mana as well. It is Impervious which is always a good thing and can rack up some major life boosts on a looping team. Not a great troop by any stretch of the imagination but could perhaps be ranked a little higher.
Cripes! Wanted to put something in here for Sir Quentin, and realized that I left you hanging for 3 weeks, my bad.
Generally this is true, but I feel like front troops who aren’t the hero and don’t have skull reduction are still mostly niche cases, exceptions to the general rule. I just don’t see a niche for using Psion up front in modern teams, especially since there’s no way to resummon him if he dies, and he mana blocks Reflection of Good. Plus, if you’re going to go to the trouble of using RoG, why not use it for a front troop with some real offense, rather than just stalling the match with mana draining?
One possible fringe pairing for Psion that could be ok is with Queen of Sin. His stalling could buy the team time to get going, at which point you could replace Psion with Wrath or Lust. I don’t think that kind of team would work as well as just running Wrath out there in the first place, but it might be worth a try.
That makes sense, but I’d argue that the only ranking that really matters is one that considers the optimal teams the troop can be used for. Otherwise, a troop like Webspinner would be considered kind of crappy, but having a fully traited and leveled one is essential if you ever want to use Arachnaean Weaver.
(Maybe Gog and Gud should be moved up? Even though he’d be completely mana-blocked on the standard gold team, on attack, that third trait is arguably better than having Greed on your team.)
I’ve thought about moving up - it’s kind of fast, and boostable via dervish class. I have it in D though because that destroying 12 gems is pretty terrible - you can randomly give the opponent a really good board if you are unlucky. Like weapon affixes that do gem creation/destruction, I can’t see myself using Behemoth because of this bad random factor.
I’m revisiting my rankings for a handful of Legendaries, what are your thoughts on the following?
–Kerberos (B or C): Kerberos is your standard risky instakill troop, except for two interesting facets: a) it’s a beast, so it can cash in on the spectacular beast synergies offered by Forest Guardian, Qilin, and Willow, and b) it has the necromancy trait. I currently use it on a soul-farming team for scaling content, where, on the back line, it can occasionally speed up the team a bit. I definitely think it’s a more useful late-game soul farming tool than the Dragon Soul or Sol’Zara, but I’m not sure if that alone can get it to B-tier. Not to mention, there may be a better risky instakiller in the form of…
–Krampus (B or C): Krampus is unusual for an instakill troop in that it has a 2/3 chance of a good outcome, which is pretty high for these types of troops. For those without High King Irongut, is a looping team based around Krampus good enough to bank on?
–King Silenus (B or C): This is a retread, but since our earlier discussion, Tian Yi got a massive series of buffs, bringing its damage in line with other mythics. Is Tian Yi (with Silenus, who gives the Shentang mythic a fast start) a viable centerpiece, at least for non-scaling content? Any teams people have used would be appreciated.
–The Great Maw (B or C): Another retread, but since then I heard of the innovative synergy TGM has with Vash’Dagon (guaranteed devour an enemy with TGM, devour TGM with Vash for some massive damage). Is this team a gimmick, or is it truly viable in the endgame?
–The Widow Queen (B or C): The rise of Vash’Dagon has shown a sacrifice-based team can work, particularly with the empowered troop options we now have. Does this extend to the Widow Queen, who remains the only passive source of web (an upper-tier status effect) in the game? I strongly feel that it does, particularly with life stats growing as they have for endgame players, but am curious if others feel differently.
In honor of Matron Dragotani, our first non-faction Legendary in a couple months, I thought I’d post my latest (4.8) Legendary tier list. There are lots of minor adjustments throughout the list compared to last time, enough to where I thought it was time for an update. See what you think!
Tiers:
S: The centerpieces; you can base a team around these troops.
A: Support; these are commonly used to complement other strong troops.
B: Niche; restricted to very specific teams, or just too good to be lumped in with the C-tier troops.
C: Ok troops whose flaws can be overlooked until the midgame. May see occasional event usage as well.
D: Flawed troops that you shouldn’t bother trying to make work, either due to random factors or obsolescence.
S-Tier:
Divinia
Divine Ishbaala
Forest Guardian
Glaycion
Nimue
Qilin
Tesla
Yao Guai
A-Tier:
Emperor Liang
Holy St. Astra
Keeper of Souls
King Bloodhammer
Queen Titania
Sir Quentin Hadley
Sekhma
Tinseltail
Wrath
B-Tier:
Captain Macaw
Crimson Bat
Emperor Khorvash
Goblin King
Hyndla Frostcrown
Infernal King
King Avelorn
King Highforge
Krampus
Krystenax
Lust
Magnus
Medea
Queen Mab
Queen Ysabelle
Spooky Imp
Starflower
Taloca
Umberwolf
Webspinner
The Widow Queen
Willow
Winter Imp
C-Tier:
Bone Dragon
Borealis
Frostfeather
Gar’Nok
Garuda
Glitterclaw
Gog and Gud
Gorgotha
Imp of Love
Jarl Firemantle
Kerberos
King Mikhail
King Silenus
Kraken
Leviathan
Matron Dragotani
Queen Moonclaw
Scylla
Sheggra
Sol’Zara
Spring Imp
Sylvanimora
The Dragon Soul
The Great Maw
Urskula
Viper
D-Tier:
Abhorath
Artema
Autumnal Imp
Behemoth
Bunni’Nog
Carnex
Celestasia
Chief Stronghorn
Dark Monolith
Dracos 1337
Dullahan
Gloom Leaf
Gruz the Undefeated
Hydra
Kruarg the Dread
Moloch
Orion
Psion
Queen Grapplepot
Saguaro
Shadow Dragon
Summer Imp
The Silent One
Venoxia
but without power creep, we wouldn’t be pressured to pull for newer troops. I totally get your argument and wish that some rebalancing would happen the older a game gets to scale up some of the classic troops to the newer metas or power creeps, but in reality I haven’t seen it in practice in any of the games, save for Empires and Puzzles (they added gacha costumes to refresh skills).
Agree that some older troops need to have their damage/ability scale with magic to make them more useful. Way too many troops don’t scale and using them is just a waste of time.
I get the power creep argument for those of us who have been here a long time and have full collections, but I feel like anyone without a complete collection would feel more compelled to pull keys frequently, because if everything were worth having then there’d be no reason to save only for the new stuff.
A person missing Gloom Leaf right now probably doesn’t care. But if it were buffed, maybe people would spend keys trying to get it even when it’s not Forest of Thorns week, or at the very least, when it is (currently they might skip, to have more chances at the new legendaries as they drop).
Good list and excellent points you make when dealing with it.
Here’s a take I can make from a lot of PvP and what troops seem to get used a lot. I think the context of your listing maybe needs to be streamlined in a way where you reconsider your explanations of your tiers? I think from reading a post below, it prompted me to think of the word ‘progressive’. The list needs maybe to look at the progressive nature of the game and how things work in game modes.
In this regard, you’ve tried to cater for maybe all roundedness and encompassed all troops together. Your list maybe be better viewed if you maybe revisit the listing and identify troops as to their core abilities/type
Maybe;
Support
Healers, generators, half way houses (a bit of both) Divinia, Holy St Astra etc.
Tier A and B, Tier C could be for junk.
All-round effectiveness?
Utility troops do a bit for another, or themselves, can change events in battle. Let’s say Keeper of Souls or Emperor K, Magnus, maybe Umberwolf, yep it has quite a bit of utility, King Highforge maybe, always hits back two targets, not effected by stealth, stuns, summons, accelerates Slayer for Fireblade, gives Dwarves 50% start etc.
Overwhelming Performance
Think troops that can effectively win a battle on their own or can seamlessly ride in many a team
Glaycion is a prime example. YG is.
Situationally Effective
Like say Queen Mab (neutered by troops immune to mana burn or are submerged), Taloca (effective when storm running), maybe Macaw etc.
Maybe it’s more apt with the state of the game to identify the best overall and the better at specific things? New players will read that and see where those troops are best suited. It will help them choose which troops they want for which things.
You include several game modes in your assessment. That again makes things difficult, because a troop like say Captain Macaw generally won’t work in explore, it only works vs hero talents and a few troops and needs to submerge a none submerged troop, then recast to kill it. So it’s probably better in PvP where several hero classes can submerge troops. Yet, where is it in T3 PvP.
So maybe you could when describing your assessments, identify their viability in game modes.
So each troop maybe gets a 3-4 line description.
Say - Leviathan
Can reorder opponents and dispel status effects, has utility to submerge itself and deal damage to all troops. Generally a situationally effective troop – has some utility but is rarely seen in any game modes. No known effective teams some use with other dragons, has dual category as a Merfolk/Dragon but unable to be accelerated to a half start.
Things like that.
What made me do this was also looking at a couple of troops.
Wrath - disagree, if you are calling S tier a centrepiece, Wrath is a centrepiece of
Wrath
Doomed Glaive or Club
Obsidius
Mercy
That team is extremely viable at meta PvP. Another reason I also disagree, is I can substitute umpteen troops in that setup and revolve it around Wrath. The conversion of yellow to skulls, the enrage, the conversion of blue to brown and the burn all.
I can make the hero almost any class and it work. I can use Fireblade.
I can swap Obsidius for TPK, Qilin, ZG. I can drop Mercy for a TPK and so on, yet Wrath is still extremely effective. Obsidius works well because stuns will negate things like fireblades and webspinners/savage hunters etc, making Wrath’s lack of skull protection less of an issue. Wrath is an exceptional troop.
Divinia - is it really a centrepiece troop? Does it make any team effective in meta PvP performance? It doesn’t scale really.
I love Divinia, 6,500 PvP uses, but it has been neutered by the Divine nerf and the arrival of say Moon Rabbit and Leprechaun.
I used to run Bard Dawnbringer or Divine Protector, Ubastet, Divinia, Mercy a lot and had a lot of success, but despite all the great things Divinia can supply, it doesn’t have fast or swift or is empowered, and it needs Ishbaala for 40% starts. An empowered to accelerate it is not ideal, it has cleanse, but only on cast. It can give numerous positive effects, but they are random, so it actually is too limited to be something to reliably build a team round. The only team I can think of where I have seen it recently, is within a team with YG, but all it tends to do is maybe extend a battle or never cast. I get that it can random enrage/barrier/submerge/bless etc, but if those were guaranteed on a cast, then it’s a centrepiece imho.
Can you say that Divinia is more useful in teams than Queen Titania? QT is very common, yes it does not have the all roundedness of Divinia, but…
Similarly, Holy St Astra once it casts, can be more effective than Divinia at times.
So I think you are better off recategorizing your lists to reflect how the troops work.
An example, your assessment of B: - Niche is perhaps a little misleading. Is not Flamifier, YG, QT, TP a niche team for QT? You could probably argue nearly all troops could be niche, but it’s maybe a little subjective of an assessment. I don’t know what you could put, maybe ‘effective troops in a variety of environments’ - might be better? If you recategorized, you could pick several types and then describe troops.
A further example, Webspinner B - Bone Dragon C. You can very easily make a team with Webspinner and Bone Dragon and it could even become very effective at T3 pvp. We get lazy, there are awful pvp teams with little or no effort wreaking havoc, so experimenting is fraught, but if we persevere, maybe we can work a few things.
Let’s see, Webspinner, Doomed Axe, Bone Dragon, Grave Seer - that could work well if we wanted to. Even Gimlet, giving Webby an enrage. We could use Moon Rabbit there, or even Mercy, which helps vs Frostmage or entangled starts. We could pop EoE in instead of Doomed Axe, endless possibilities.
Sheggra - C - we could very easily make a skull team with Sheggra. Let me see…
Here’s one, Stonehammer, that much maligned dude, Sheggra, Doomed Blade, Mercy, Titan or Bard or Mech (think tree of knowledge). I mean an exceptional team, albeit slow, Glaycion, Stonehammer (yes that way round is best) Doomed Xbow, Mercy. I never lose vs anything that wants to skull hit. I can beat every meta team with it, but it’s not completely reliable because speed kills, but if I want a team vs most things, that will decimate.
The old Stonehammer/Glaycion/Crossbow/Grave Seer was also good as thief, but too much freeze could be its undoing.
Heck, let’s change colour, Champion of Gaard, Doomed Blade, Sheggra, any empowered you want to accelerate.
So, maybe if I may, you may be better sorting your listings by modes, with descriptions, rather than just popping them all in the tiers like thus, as it will surely help see things better and would be a really nice reference for players.
Thanks for the feedback and kind words! I’ll respond to the format points separately from the troop-specific points, don’t want to lose the latter in the shuffle.
I def get that a more specialized list would provide more useful information to newer players. I think the main purpose of the list currently is to list which Legendaries should be targeted with event keys; explaining how to use them would be a bit of an expansion/shift in purpose. It would be also good to kind of have an explanation of why a troop is in a certain tier; I worry there that the list, already pretty wall-of-text-ish, might get a bit unwieldy.
I think a supplemental list, focusing just on the S-A-B troops, and listing them by role/game mode usage could be a good project on the side.
That being said, I probably could stand to refine the explanation of the tiers. If I could find one unifying thread that I ranked the troops based on, it’s “usefulness” to those in the endgame. With the S and A-tiers being very useful in at least one game mode, and the Bs having a very specific usefulness (C and D-tier troops are not used at all, except possibly in troop-restricted events). By “specific usefulness,” I mean that troops in B depend more on other troops to make their teams strong - and become pretty useless without those other troops. King Avelorn is a good example - without some other elves to speed up, he’s not strong enough, either as centerpiece or as support, to carry an endgame team. It’s not so much about average usefulness in everything in the game; it’s more about how good a troop is in the role that it’s commonly used for.
I like this idea a lot, but again, big job. What I will do I think though is start to link individual troops with posts in this thread where they are discussed, so people interested in these troops can see what has been said about them.
Wrath - he was very tough for me to rank. I put him in A because I think running him to take advantage of his awesome third trait is a bit too risky (unless you are running Queen of Sin, but the jury’s still out if there’s a top-notch team there). I like him a lot though, and I could be persuaded that, between the burn all enemies/enrage all allies and his self-looping capability, he’s good enough to be S even when not on the front line. A border case that could be argued either way, for sure.
How often do you end up losing Wrath on that Obsidius team in meta pvp? I use a Wrath team in explore12 and, granted that it’s scaling content, but I still end up losing him I’d say once every 6 matches. Obsidius’s stun-all is arguably an essential element - fireblade/webspinner teams are one-shotting him otherwise. Even against normal teams, Wrath’s inability to survive two hits would seem to make him too unreliable in that front slot.
(I think reliability is a major concern with several of these skull-based troops you mentioned, as mentioned below)
Divinia - I think you make some great points. Divinia is clearly a support troop, but I put her in S because she provides just so much support between the board control, the cleanse-all, the life-gain, and the random statuses. That being said, she’s kind of in an awkward place in the modern game, and is a bit more niche than I had thought when making the list (mainly due to being slower than other exploders, as you noted). I’ll move her down to A accordingly.
Queen Titania - B-tier is a bit of a grab bag; it is intended to cover much less-frequently used support troops compared to A-tier, and centerpiece troops who are just too good to lump in with the C-tier. If Titania’s only good team is the Yao Guai one, then she belongs in B, but I tend to think she has a bit more utility than just that team. She isn’t centerpiece material, but between her extra turn and passive faerie fire, I think she has a bit more versatility than the B-tier troops. Could be persuaded otherwise though.
Webspinner, Bone Dragon, Sheggra - These are all skull troops with varying degrees of gimmicky utility.
Webspinner - I put it in B mostly because it’s a summon for Arachnaean Weaver. If it wasn’t a summon for one of the strongest Mythics in the game, it’s probably a C. Maybe it should go there anyway, for consistency?
Bone Dragon - random skull creation I think is just way too gimmicky for a high-level team on offense. MAYBE it gets to B as a defensive troop (a la Lust), but I just can’t see betting the farm on Bone Dragon, the miscasts are too costly.
Sheggra - since she is a converter, not a random generator, I’ve thought at times that there may be a place for Sheggra in B (and have been shot down on those occasions lol). Her biggest weakness is that she only converts one color, but I still think there could be a team with her that can take on meta pvp (especially now that she gets half-mana starts with Maraji Queen). If she created more reds before converting, I think she’d be a solid B, but as it is, it’s a tough call that I think most people would not give her the benefit of the doubt on.
I just had a read of the last posted list, and I’m generally on board.
I was mostly looking for troops that might have been undervalued and need to go up a tier, but then did a second pass looking for ones that might have been overvalued.
I think Gorgotha has started to see a bit more use again, and could probably go from C to B. C feels below him .
I’d argue Nimue could go down to A with Sekhma, the other dual-converter with no 50% start option. I’d put Alderfather in S, though (I noticed it doesn’t include Underworld troops, though). I don’t see Nimue used a lot, mainly because anywhere she would be used, Alderfather gets used instead (and generally for good reason).
I think Webspinner’s fine in B, primarily for its 3rd trait, and not because it’s the summon of A. Weaver (although that is a nice bonus). I don’t think it compares to Bone Dragon or Sheggra, and it gets used a fair bit in defence teams.
I think Emperor Liang and Tinseltail could probably go down to B, particularly Tinseltail (low B). I don’t see either used a lot; I think Liang probably fits into the ‘specific teams’ category rather than being a generally viable support, at least at higher levels. I think his Enchant is too slow and unreliable, and his destroy Gems takes too long to get going and depends on the board, plus requires specific troops to make full use of (E.g. maybe Yao and Avelorn? Even then, though, it’s not something I’d use in competitive PvP).
If you did include Underworld legendaries, there’d be a few in the upper tiers. Maraji, Beetrix, Gobtruffle, Alderfather… I don’t really want to get into it, though .
You do see Gorgotha used a bit more than many of the other C-troops, though I’m not exactly sure why that is. His skull reduction gets bypassed by stun and enrage, and while his explosion is good, I’m not seeing what kinds of teams he uniquely benefits.
Interesting points re: Nimue; I pegged her as clearly better than Alderfather when the latter was released, but I can see how it’s become more of a situational call with the release of Maraji Queen making Alderfather a clearly better choice in some teams. Her silence on cast is really really good (though clearly not as good against certain troops) and her 3rd trait is pretty good too, since it targets the first troop (though I wish it triggered on purple matches, like Alderfather’s). I think the combination of everything she brings is better than Sekhma (who’s still pretty good!), particularly since she self-loops. But if I’m missing something and Alderfather is the clearly better option, then she would be an A (or maybe even a B).
For sure Webspinner’s third trait is what makes it good; I was just distinguishing it from the other gimmicky skull team troops. It is a uniquely effective defense troop, but would you say it’s an entire tier better than Bone Dragon or Sheggra? Those two can be scary on defense as well.
Good points re: Liang and Tinseltail. Liang has been hurt by the release of Mistralus as a passive enchant source, and one thing I think I didn’t factor properly for both troops is that the magic boosting, while good, isn’t a game changer (especially as we’ve gotten so many other ways of increasing magic). I like Tinseltail a lot, but I’ll admit it’s a bit situational. If its always-active spell effect were the explosion instead of the magic gain, it would be an A for sure, but for now I’d agree with moving them both down to B.
Yeah, adding faction troops would be a bit pointless anyway, since the list is meant to direct event key spending, but you’re right, there are a number of S-tier Legendaries in the factions. I did make this list to highlight them in a separate thread.
I was really looking at the list and they way you had categorised the troops that caused me to comment.
So for example with Wrath, there are so many uses with it, not just first slot. The team I mentioned can go many wins in a row vs meta teams. Granted, it’s weakness is skulls, but then again, when opponents runs Sister Superior with massive skull damage (Webspinner, Tracker, Savage Hunter and co) even Glaycion is reverted useless, and so is Gorgotha, Frostfire Wraith etc.
Unless you are running something none Daemon with high skull protection and can generate mana and fast, they are headaches for most teams. So Wrath’s achilles heel is also that of other troops vs skull dealing meta.
Wrath however can kill things fairly easily, can work in so many setups and make skull teams better. A weapon made for it is Doomed Glaive, with the entangle and brown to Doomskulls. I remember before Glaive was released who it’s perfect companion would be.
Wrath’s utility is such that in reality, you can move it around and setup other things. So let’s take Glaycion ahead of it. Although Wrath and Glaycion are not seamless, because Glaycion converts yellow to blue, it’s actually not much of an issue, in that Blue to Brown from Wrath refills Glaycion, and you will be casting Glaycion and making blue. Sometimes it’s possible to fire Wrath, and fill Glaycion and Wrath again. The fact that Glaycion converts red to doomskulls works fine. Classic example, EoE running behind them.
Another intriguing troop with Wrath is Sekhma, blue to skulls, brown to yellow, no block. Never tried it, might be viable.
So, what else for Wrath. How about Umenath, Wrath, Rope Dart Mercy? That could work, Umenath with enrage. :o
Fireblades, so many choices. Here’s one I tried today limitedly. Wrath, The Eigth Sin, Mercy, Obsidius (or Queen Beetrix ahead of Mercy) - Slayer. Use Mercy to start Wrath, fire Wrath, run Shentang banner, when Sin full, you’ve probably cast Wrath. Obsidius picks up excess brown and all purple. Pull Sin ahead, you’ve got the enrage from Wrath, the burn and if running Slayer, you also have Chill of Death and Life Siphon, plus ofc Fireblade. Siphon gains you life, key for the weapon to create more skulls and CoD is a 100% freeze, unless immune, to one troop.
In explore, arguably Fireblade is perfect, so Wrath would be better served running in slot 2, 3 or 4, behind none blocking troops. I think I’ve ran a lot of stuff with it behind hero. Perhaps an underestimated hero in first slot is a Warden hero. 30% dodge, Vanguard, Root Trap, and maybe with Moon Rabbit in the team to also give it a bless. Works well vs those evil damage dealers.
re Webspinner and Bone Dragon. Your description indicates B tier troops are too good to match with C tier, and I provided an example of those 2 troops working okay together.
Re Gorgotha, yep, pretty nice, swap that for Wrath in many setups, immune to burning is also a thing…
That’s an argument that Gorgotha’s too good to be in C, I’ll bump him up. I’m damn curious though, what kind of teams are you using where you’d use Gorgotha instead of Mountain Crusher+Rock Solid hero or one of the better skull-reduction tanks?
Interesting team, props for creative use of the 8th Sin. It seems like too risky of a weapon to rely on (very Bone Dragon-ish, where it can single-handedly win or lose the match), but who knows, it might be good for Explore?
I’ll bump Wrath up to S, it seems to be justified based on what you’ve said.
Right, and I’m just saying that while Webspinner may have enough positives to be in B, I’m not there on Bone Dragon yet, because relying on random skull creation seems too unreliable of a strategy for B-tier. For similar reasons, I ended up demoting Scylla to C-tier as well (bonestorms are just a bit too risky and unpredictable to rely on). If you think Bone Dragon can avoid misfires consistently enough to be a reliable high-level pvp troop, then I’ll move it up too.
With the changes, B-tier is getting pretty beefy, and as such I’m thinking of adding a tier in between the current B and C-tiers. It just seems to me that there’s getting to be a significant difference between the types of teams that, say, King Avelorn or Emperor Khorvash can enable, compared to the teams that use the likes of King Highforge or Magnus. Coming up with the right description for the tiers is going to be the challenge. Here’s what I have in mind:
S-Tier: no change
A-Tier: Useful support for some of the strongest teams,
B-Tier: Lesser support troops or strong troops that support a smaller variety of teams,
C-Tier: Endgame-viable troops that only work on niche teams.
MC+ Rock Solid isn’t a perfect solution and is prone to occasional skull cascade issues. If you’re playing thousands of match, you’re bound to run into it sooner or later.
As for: “one of the better skull-reduction tanks” what has a better raw skull reduction rate than Gorgotha? I’m only familiar with Stonehammer from what I know and Gem creation isn’t always consistent.
The team I farm with uses Sunspear since I’m done leveling classes, though I have variations of the team that can use a red storm, blue storm, yellow storm, or green storm. Haven’t found one for brown or purple that I liked yet though.
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