I meant “better” in the sense of contributing more to the team than exploding+skull reduction, not having a higher percentage of skull reduction (e.g. Glaycion, various Mythics, maybe a handful of other troops with Stoneskin). Maybe they would make sense, maybe they wouldn’t, hard to say in a vacuum.
If he’s just trying to go fast and not die, skull reduction and board explosion for mana generation is all he really needs
There’s always personal bias in these things, but looking at:
S-Tier: no change
A-Tier: Useful support for some of the strongest teams,
B-Tier: Lesser support troops or strong troops that support a smaller variety of teams,
C-Tier: Endgame-viable troops that only work on niche teams.
This would certainly put Jarl in the A bracket (I find you are severely underestimating the synergy of the giants). I also would argue Hyndia deserves an S tier simply due to her third trait and the very powerful Titan hero class (Mang/MC).
Titan cookie cutter: MC+Fire Giant+Jarl+Hyndia can crack most problems. They lack the defensive staying power, but in a few loops Jarl and FG get enough Hyndia boosts to demolish the heavier teams and with Hyndia as a safety valve you simply have a very achievable powerhouse team.
I would argue this team is the most obtainable powerhouse team. Yes there are stronger teams, but those have a very different resource curve.
Thanks for the feedback!
I might be underestimating the Giants. But I just found Jarl maddeningly unreliable when using him, and Hyndla’s freeze isn’t as reliable protection against miscast with Orpheus medals in play these days. Maybe I need to rethink when to cast Jarl? You’re right, the team is pretty accessible for a pvp option, but I tend to think of it as a “viable, but inconsistent” option, similarly to a Bone Dragon-based skull team these days.
Also, is the Jarl-Fire Giant team still the main one for giants? I thought Sheggra’s Spine teams were getting more popular.
(Related question - I thought a yellow weapon like Flammifer or Sky Hero was more common with that team than Mountain Crusher, whose brown would gum up looping with Jarl?)
The Giant cookie Cutter team is not as reliable as the real top-tier teams, but it is among the most obtainable teams with the power to tackle everything (though again, not as reliable as the real top teams).
It’s obtainable in a month or two and it might take a year or so before a "free"player has a Mythical custom team to outperform it.
If we look at the S-team options they are strong, but whereas Hyndia can be a cornerstone in a very easily obtainable synergetic team, whereas the others need some heavy hitters (the S list is support heavy).
Divine Ishabalaa is fantastic, but the Giant Cookie Cutter outperforms teams with her at heart unless you pair her up with synergetic mythics. So on the one hand she has more room in the true top end teams, on the other hand she can’t do the real heavy lifting on her own.
On Flammifier and the Spine; It’s a question of obtainability and resources. The cookie cutter team with MC is pretty much easily available and really cheap on resources. A few hours for the traitstones and a few low level delves for the ingots and you can ram through pretty much everything. it’s hard to beat bang for the buck.
If the argument is: But in the long run this team is not so viable and thus not worthy of S-tier I counter that this team will be many players high end team for perhaps a year, so worthy your (low) investment.
By classifying Jarl as C you give the impression he’s just not good, while in truth he’s the cornerstone of this really important team (and synergetic with the best beginner class).
Hyndia should be S because of her even greater synergy with the Titan class. She makes a mid level hero into a monster who one-shots left and right, just as long as you get a few loops going. It’s hard to find a troop that has that much effect.
Lastly a last pitch for the Giants: Whereas many looping teams are slow as they miss a nuke, the giants all have a damage dealing attack, which makes them a lot faster than for example Apothecary/Acolyte teams.
So the real value of the giants is not their top end potential, but their usefulness/bang for the buck is something that elevates them over most other legendaries… it’s hard to come up with a just as good setup that works for such a long period.
But that’s IMHO… I applaud your hard work
You raise some good points here. The point about accessibility of the giants team goes back to whether or not this list should be modified based on early-game value or utility. Since we are tying the list to event key expenditure, there is an argument for doing so, but I am opting not to, mainly because don’t think there are really any of the higher-tier troops who aren’t as good in the early game as they are later on.
Like your example of Divine Ishbaala, I think she’s just as good or better than the giants in the early game - pairing her with Moon Rabbit and another skull-based troop doesn’t require any Mythics and is a strong and reliable option at all levels. Likewise, centerpiece troops like Yao Guai and Glaycion don’t need any Mythic troops to perform at a high level, so without more specifics, I don’t agree that any of these troops are harder to build around than the Giants (who still require two legendary troops to function, not especially easy to pull unless it’s Stormheim week).
I think the problem with Jarl looking maybe worse than he actually is in C-tier may be sorted out when I release an updated list, with a mix of those currently in B and C-tiers.
Hyndla does synergize well with Titan class, but giants are no longer the basis of the best teams, either in pvp or in scaling content, and she doesn’t quite bring enough to be used in a mixed team, hence the B-ranking (which is still pretty good!).
And there’s my personal bias: I’m not agreeing on any of those points^^
Joking aside, I understand your logic (still Giants should be raised one tier)
That list and the latest list in itself epitomize the problems with such a list, we try to be arbitrary and logical, but it’s neigh impossible, which leads to amusing shifts of cards up and down the list.
Looking at that suggestion, I just can’t go there for Jarl at the current time. Too often it feels like casting him is a 50-50 on whether or not you get an extra turn, even with a good board. I think his reliability is comparable to (or even less reliable than) Bone Dragon, say, on the team Xolid mentioned above, and therefore they both belong in C-tier.
Now Hyndla in A-tier, that’s a bit more arguable. Looking at who I currently have in A-tier:
Holy St. Astra
Keeper of Souls
I think these three are clearly better/more useful than Hyndla, as they are viable in scaling content (and non-scaling content).
Sir Quentin Hadley
Skull-based dual converters are extremely versatile and strong troops. While I can’t cite specific teams off the top of my head, I feel pretty confident that there are more teams that can be used at a high level using these two than there are for Hyndla
These are the closest calls, and involve a bit more speculation. Honestly I’m closer to dropping these two to B on a more conservative list than I am to moving Hyndla up to A. But these are in A because my sense is that they can be used in more teams and/or stronger teams than the Giants team that feature Hyndla.
I do wonder which teams you have that have Sir Quentin Hadley as center piece that beatsthe snot out of a Hyndia looping team
Using your conditions