I’m glad you brought this up. You actually beat me to the punch! In my draft of the next tier list, I have Spring Imp moved up to C. Entangle-all plus AoE damage that self-boosts for 12 mana is not a bad deal, especially if you have other troops (Yasmine’s Chosen in particular) that can utilize the entangle-all.
I hadn’t considered the specific utility with stuff like Zuul’Goth (also applicable to The Wild Queen, I’m guessing), where you can insure against awkward skull-generation situations. On top of it all, Spring Imp has nature link, which makes being mana-blocked easier to deal with.
I think the imps (well, the non-random factor ones, sorry Summer and Autumnal Imp) are a bit overlooked, as they bring useful synergies similarly to the Spring Imp. In particular, Imp of Love (whose charm on cast makes him do a ton of damage) and Spooky Imp (50-50 between transforming an opponent or boosting the team’s magic is pretty good!) are borderline B-tier candidates I think. Spring Imp isn’t quite as good as those two, but could also be B-tier if there are specific teams that take advantage of what she does (overlap with the passive entangle Legendaries hurts a bit).
where’s a good spot to see the teams that can be created around the S / A / B tiers?
Searching is good but provides mixed results. I’m a new player with some of these, like krystenax, wrath, bloodhammer, queen titania, khorvash, frostcrown, tinseltail, etc. but I am struggling with how best to create teams around them.
And by the way, thank you very much @Mana_Surgeon and the other contributors to this thread. As a newbie, it’s super helpful to understand what I have and what to spend precious early game resources on.
For teambuilding, there aren’t very many resources unfortunately (a major void in GoW content). I’m sure @Keylime and @Tacet have made videos on the subject, if you’re open to that type of content. I gained a lot from the detailed explanations in the steam mythic guide by EliteMasterEric. Some of the information in the guide is dated, but you’ll get explanations behind some common team builds that you can still apply.
For a few specific suggestions:
Bloodhammer, Titania, and Hyndla are featured in some commonly-used builds. Bloodhammer goes well with Glaycion and brown-centric mana generating troops and weapons (Mountain Crusher for the hero, Apothecary, Gimlet Stormbrew). Titania is a centerpiece of the famous red-centric defense team (hero w/Flammifer, Yao Guai, Tai Pan), that works very well on offense too (you have a lot of hero weapon options - Sky Hero, Jar of Eyes+firestorm from Sunspear hero class being also good). Hyndla’s best-known for being on all-giant teams featuring Titan-class hero, and usually Jarl Firemantle + Fire Giant. I think she’s versatile enough to work with any looping team+Titan-class hero, but that’s not as common.
Khorvash is similar to Hyndla, best used on human-centric teams that loop, so you can stun the opponent’s entire team with his third trait. You can also use him with other true damage-dealing troops to emphasize that aspect of his spell.
Tinseltail is a bit undervalued in my opinion, as a complementary piece for troops with damaging spells (e.g. Titania). It is a reliable source of faerie fire and team-wide magic boosting, and its secondary spell effects can really speed battles up.
Krystenax was recently discussed by Maxx in an earlier post, I don’t have as much experience with it. You’ll generally want to plug it in as a fourth troop, on teams with two mana generators and a spell caster (a common 3-troop core, though there are others, such as ones featuring exploders).
I kinda disagree with Khorvash. He’s maybe the best Stun in the game and - especially as a beginner - he’ll find his place in many Teams - not only human centric ones.
You’re right, I was a bit unclear, I guess. I was trying to say 2 separate things, that he works especially well on looping teams, and human teams (getting a 50% mana start from Holy St. Astra, mainly) complement him well. It kinda got all mushed together the way I said it, my bad.
But yes, he doesn’t need other humans to be good. Especially since he doesn’t boost all their stats on 4/5 matches like Hyndla does.
I came across that guide searching for team build advice. its fantastic and I hope to never pull any of the lower tier mythics, which means I will pull all of them
Unfortunately the majority of his teams use troops I don’t have, like yao or ishbala, kos, etc.
thanks for the response, I’ll watch a couple more lime vids.
In the steam guide, I wouldn’t focus as much on the exact teams as I would the descriptions of the roles your troops have, and how they’re being used. For example, Bloodhammer being often linked with doomskull-generating options (especially doomed weapons and Glaycion), Titania (and Tinseltail) being used with other spell-casters to take advantage of faerie fire, Khorvash/Krystenax being used as spell-casters on blue-centric teams, etc.
PS: I actually disagree with some of his low-tier mythic rankings, specifically Euryali, Queen of Sin, and Wulfgarok. You wouldn’t be too bad off if you pull any of those. Happy hunting!
I’m about ready to update my list for 4.6.5, thought I’d see what you guys thought about one more group of legendaries:
Frostfeather (B or C): I had Frostfeather at a hard B before 4.6, but it may be a casualty of the Cedric Medal. Turn-enders who inflict curse (without also stunning) were nerfed by the auto-cleansing medals, and Frostfeather already had to deal with the setup cost of having an icestorm for its curse-all to trigger. It does good damage still, but with its curse not being as sticky as it was before, might drop down to C.
Lust (A or B): As one of the most annoying defense troops in the game, Lust is pretty safe in B. I’m thinking it could move up if any of the theoretical uses for it on offense (e.g., with Vash on a sacrifice team) have actually panned out for anybody.
Jarl Firemantle (B or C): We know by now Jarl isn’t great by himself, but can be usable on giant teams with Hyndla and Fire Giant. With Hyndla getting nerfed a bit (Warmaster? really? plus the nerf to freeze via Cedrics) in the long run, I’m wondering if this team is still viable, or if all the other options we now have render it obsolete.
Wrath (S or A): Wrath has a lot of benefits and doesn’t color block as badly as some of the other double converters. His biggest weakness is that he needs to be a front troop to benefit from his third trait explosions, and is a bit frail for that role. Is that enough to keep him in A-tier?
Sylvanimora (B or C): With its third trait, Sylvanimora used to be a staple for delving. Now that we have an abundance of options for inflicting entangle, it’s taken a back seat there, and it’s weaknesses come more to the forefront. Its spell has a high 17-mana cost, doesn’t generate much mana, or do much damage. Its third trait really dictates whether or not it deserves to stay in B-tier IMO.
It’s too bad, another casualty of the exploder nerf. Sylva. was a midgame beast for me back in the day. I played thousands of PVP matches with Sylva/TDS/Krystenax and [anything, usually random weekly bonus troop to just sit there and never cast, since it was before talents and champion XP]. After the first TDS cast to get going all 3 could reliably self-fill
I don’t really use Sylv at all any more now so I guess I agree, there are definitely better delve etc. options at end game status
But in mid game I have to think the 3rd trait could be even more important now that it can be paired with hero talents—there are other passive “random” entangle Traits, but pretty sure Sylva is the only one who targets the first slot. So it is still a completely unique legendary trait. Any hero class with Root Trap, the trait will just keep reliably refreshing on the top spot forever
For punching up in PVP, that’s still very helpful id think. Especially with so many empowered webspinner skull teams around. Also I think first trait is reasonably useful too, chance to summon a dragonette on death, and I personally think dragonette is generally one of the best Rares in the game. Then again I guess with EoE and half-mana start heroes it’s not as much of a novelty anymore to be able to inflict multiple status effects after a single gem match
TL;DR I guess I have no idea what the midgame is actually like anymore? It’s a completely different game than I played at that time.
I guess EoE can do everything Sylva does and better for “punching up,” except you do have to cast it. So if you want to use a different hero weapon, maybe Sylva still has a niche. And there’s no Frog upgrade on the dragons
Re: Wrath frailty, see Sylvanimora post above Entangle ftw? I tend to only use wrath in solid looping teams where I don’t expect to ever drop the turn, for this reason. Probably my least favorite skull converter but at least Enrage-all allies means your 2nd (or 3rd!) can still get a good shot if it all goes sideways
EDIT: I forgot about doomskulls in both these posts. Entangle just really isn’t what it used to be.
Thanks for the Sylvanimora breakdown. All that would tend to add up to a C in my book. Bs tend to have some niche endgame use still, unlike the Cs, which are fine for midgame, but pretty much unused in the endgame.
First of all, she was never “nerfed” . She just has a role that you may not care for, but her stats remain the same. At the rate Anu tokens drop, she wouldn’t have seen any upgrades at all by anyone at any point.
Second of all, Warmaster is actually good for Hyndla since the more life she has, the longer she can stay alive, the more chances she can to provide her own magic boost. A mage only gains “6 magic” and no extra stats and that’s only 3 4/5 matches for her to obtain.
Thanks all for the troop evaluations. So many times I unlock a troop, traiit and level it, and then never look at it again. I’ll definitely have to give Willow a second look.
And since I’m taking something away, I thought I’d leave something as well. Gob King deserves better than a C. He doesn’t stun like Dwarf summoner, or start Dwarves at 50% mana, but he’s still a Goblin. Need to shift stones so Glacyon or Bloodhammer can get a 4 match? Done. Need a buffer troop, who might be worthless? Maybe you get lucky and get da Rocket. Bonus.
Orcses is da best, but Gobbos is good too. gl hf
Thanks again for the Willow tip. I wasn’t a fan of the movie; maybe I let that cloud my judgement. Unrelated, I know. But name association. Kinda like if I see a troop uses Blue mana, I instinctively don’t like it…
The rebalance from elite levels technically hasn’t happened yet, but its foreseeable that both allies and opposing troops will have max elite levels. Not too reachy.
As for whether or not warmaster is a nerf, I guess that’s debatable? Having to do 3 more 4/5 matches to kill is a significant difference, but you can argue that getting 12 durability to offset an opponent’s +6 magic is a win. Particularly since she’s a summoner, survivability matters more, since it buys you time to make a comeback.
I would still tend to favor killing faster over being able to survive though. I can foresee situations where a Hyndla cast falls just short of killing a full-mana opponent (as her average damage falls significantly short of many of the better legendaries with elite levels factored in). This will force a player to choose between casting to end a turn (and hoping the freeze sticks) or waiting and hoping to survive the opponent’s turn.
In a Giants team, Hyndla was never the one actually killing anything. She stalls them with freeze/resummons holes/ and makes the other Giants into bigger killers. In the end, her damage output isn’t that important compared to say Jotnar or Fire Giant.
Not everyone is needed for their damage.
I prefer survivability over kill speed in real games of Gems of War, most notably in places like delves. I factor in kill speed for the sole purpose of keeping my team alive long enough to win the match. Well, faster matches don’t hurt either.
Even if Hyndla isn’t the main threat on the giants team, her damage being worse does hurt that team somewhat. Pre-elite level, her damage is actually pretty good, and I used her to chip away at the other team’s health and get late kills effectively. In fact, paired with titan class hero, she was an option I always kept in mind when I needed a blue mana user on a team. Between freeze getting worse and her damage getting worse, it’s hard not to feel like the giants team has lost a little steam, and that she won’t have any utility outside of that team anymore once the elite levels become more prevalent.
On kill speed vs survivability, are the giant teams much of a factor on scaling content? I can’t say I’d heard of that. I thought they were more of a non-scaling team, where speed tends to matter more (especially in pvp; not so much in pve stuff though).
I think you may be right actually. When I first made the list, I’d written the Goblin King off, as his life gain is insignificant, and his traits aren’t much help. But since then, goblins have gotten stronger (Cedric Medal, strong new Goblin troops), and doomskull teams, heavily dependent on getting proper alignments, have become more prevalent. As such, I’m thinking Goblin King may actually be a bit more worth using. I’ll move him up to B on the next list.
I couldn’t even find the latest version of the list in this thread, so I figure now’s as good as any time to release my current 4.6.5 tier list. Note that I am accounting for elite levels here - that will help some of the placements make more sense.
EDIT: List is out of date, find the current list here.
Tiers:
S: You can base a team around these troops through the endgame.
A: Niche+; these are more limited than the S-tiers, but a bit more versatile/stronger than the Bs.
B: These either are restricted to specific teams or modes in the endgame, or are just too good to be lumped in with the C-tier troops.
C: These are ok troops whose flaws can be overlooked until the midgame. You might still use some of these for events.
D: Flawed troops that you shouldn’t bother trying to make work.
S-Tier:
Divinia
Divine Ishbaala
Forest Guardian
Glaycion
King Bloodhammer
Qilin
Queen Titania
Tesla
Yao Guai
A-Tier:
Emperor Khorvash
Holy St Astra
Keeper of Souls
Nimue
Sekhma
Wrath
B-Tier:
Crimson Bat
Emperor Liang
Goblin King
Hyndla Frostcrown
Infernal King
Jarl Firemantle
King Avelorn
King Highforge
Krystenax
Lust
Magnus
Medea
Queen Mab
Scylla
Starflower
Taloca
Tinseltail
Umberwolf
Webspinner
Willow
Winter Imp
C-Tier:
Artema
Bone Dragon
Borealis
Carnex
Dullahan
Frostfeather
Gar’Nok
Garuda
Glitterclaw
Gorgotha
Imp of Love
Kerberos
King Mikhail
King Silenus
Kraken
Leviathan
Orion
Queen Grapplepot
Queen Moonclaw
Queen Ysabelle
Sheggra
Sol’Zara
Spooky Imp
Spring Imp
Sylvanimora
The Dragon Soul
The Great Maw
The Widow Queen
Urskula
Viper
D-Tier:
Abhorath
Autumnal Imp
Behemoth
Bunni’Nog
Celestasia
Chief Stronghorn
Dark Monolith
Dracos 1337
Gloom Leaf
Gog and Gud
Gruz the Undefeated
Hydra
Kruarg the Dread
Moloch
Psion
Saguaro
Shadow Dragon
Summer Imp
The Silent One
Venoxia
As always, thanks for the feedback, it has improved the list tons.
Wait a second, where is the Maraji Queen on the list? I’d say A-tier… can’t rank it the same as crimson bat or goblin king. Or maybe I like EoE nukes too much.
I only included the Legendaries in chests, no faction Legendaries - since arguably the point of this list is to guide event key expenditure, they’d be kind of irrelevant.
(For fun, the Maraji Queen would be an S if she were included though.)
Entangle ftw? I tend to only use wrath in solid looping teams where I don’t expect to ever drop the turn, for this reason. Probably my least favorite skull converter but at least Enrage-all allies means your 2nd (or 3rd!) can still get a good shot if it all goes sideways 