Request for Legendary Tier List

Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)
41

No doubt Silenus is very strong on that team, his synergy with the Wild Queen and other Wildfolk are what have him in B-tier. I just see Silenus being in the same boat as Hyndla - much more dependent on team construction than the troops in S and A-tier, with a good payoff, but maybe not as strong as the best teams in the game under normal playing conditions (but great for event weeks/GW).

I will say that King Silenus and Holy St. Astra, as 50% mana start-ers for their types, might be good enough for A-Tier. That is a very strong trait, and Silenus is boosting a strong mythic in the Wild Queen. If people think the wildfolk/human teams are as strong as the elf teams that King Avelorn is boosting, I can see moving those two up to A-tier.

A few random questions about your team:

  • Who goes up front? I’m thinking it has to be the hero, but you did list King Silenus there, and both Silenus and Luna would block the hero in the alignment you gave.

  • The team has an insanely fast start, but how does it do for mana generation as the match goes on? Successive casts of Silenus, Luna, and Dancing Daggers would be pretty crippling, but it would seem to be tough to generate mana after your first casts. EDIT: Forgot about Luna’s 3rd trait that makes her a poor man’s TPK, but it is dependent on yellow gems being on the board, and unless Bard has a lightstorm trait, seems somewhat luck-dependent.

42

I use the team as listed under either the Talon banner ( ++ yellow, + green, - blue) or Banner of Progress (+ red and + yellow)

To deal with the manning blocking, I use the Tree of Knowledge talent (Knowledge level 70) so that the first green match gets the hero going via enchant. Plus with bardic inspiration, I like waiting to fire the dancing daggers until it can do more damage. Another reason for putting the hero last is that the other level 5 talents are useless for this team, so I might as well take advantage of the extra 3 magic from Mage Lord.

I’m two traitstones away from getting the fast start via Silenus’ 3rd trait and looking forward to seeing how that helps. After looking at the talent trees to answer, just realized I could speed up the mana by switching talent level 20 to Mana Source instead of the 3 magic from Tactician. Going to go try that out now.

One of the things I really like about this team is that any one of the four can solo a battle, so I don’t worry when I lose a troop.

Edit to add
Yes, mana generation during a long battle is very luck dependent, but being able to use every color besides blue helps to make up for that.

This team is vulnerable to looping teams and I’ve had a few with lucky rng’s destroy me.

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43

It’s hard to value troops straight up
Certain troops may be “S rank” in one team only, or several teams, while being worthless in others
It’s all about team synergy

But yes there are some that are worthless all around

44

It’s a tough job, no doubt…but someone’s got to do it? :man_shrugging:

The way I handle the specific issue you mentioned in my list:

  • If a troop is part of an s-tier meta team in any of the key aspects of GoW (pvp, delves/scaling content, resource generation), they go in S or A, depending on versatility.

  • If a troop is part of a strong niche endgame team, but not quite up to the top teams, then they go in B-tier.

Synergy-dependency makes things complicated sometimes; I think we should try and focus on what a troop uniquely brings to the synergy, to distinguish between those that add strong synergy from those that kind of mooch off stronger troops.

45

So I’ve been updating my draft list with info gleaned from people’s responses, as well as further experience playing the game, and there are a handful of Legendaries I find straddling the tier lines. Here are the top 5ish Legendaries that are hardest for me to place (in no particular order):

  • Keeper of Souls (S or A tier): The KoS is a fantastic glue troop for any team that relies on skull/doomskull damage. Usable in both scaling and unscaled content, I still hesitate to include it with the S-tiers. This is mainly because the other S-Tier Legendaries tend to carry a team on their own. The KoS, by contrast, really needs to be paired with another strong skull generator to be at its best, and can’t quite carry a team on its own.

  • Krystenax (A or B): We discussed Krystenax above, and my first impressions were that it didn’t stand out in any particular way in the endgame to justify being with the A-ranks. I’ve since really come to appreciate the ability to deny colors to the opponent (this is the way to deal with empowered troops in many cases), so I’m open to revising my assessment. I just need some help finding teams that would use Krystenax to the best effect.

  • Sheggra/The Great Maw (B or C): I’m lumping this oldie combo together because you don’t see one too often without the other (def true for Sheggra, TGM a little less so?). Their placement turns on whether or not the combo is still viable in the current meta. I’ve played against this team in pvp, and haven’t had too much trouble, though I see the threat. Does it work well enough on offense?

  • Carnex (B or C): Nobody talks about this old critter, and I’m trying to figure out why. It explodes, boosts its own armor (and, via trait, attack), and is impervious to status effects. It seems flat out better than Gorgotha at this stage in the game, is there a good team that takes advantage of its synergies with other Adana troops?

  • King Mikhail/Urskula (B or C): Another package deal that I’m unsure how well holds up in the current meta. Urskula’s mediocre; she’s only here because she speeds up Mikhail, a self-enraging front troop who generates mana and does AoE damage. Has anybody gotten anything good out of this combo (or Mikhail solo, since he might be able to work without Urskula)?

I’d appreciate any insights/thoughts you might have on these troops, thanks.

46

Keeper of Souls is an A rank. At the end of the day, its a 1 color converter and is heavily reliant on your 1st troop not being impaired.

… I’m trying my best not to move your entire Tier list again, I don’t care enough. Its tough though.

Krystenax is a B rank. Denial of colors is a great effect when used properly, but I’d rather use Astral Spirit for empowered or 2 color converter if I’m targeting specific denial. Or I could just win from filling 15 mana. Its one of those games now.

Sheggra/The Great Maw combo is non-existent on the current version of the game, so I’d gladly suggest decoupling them. Both are C rank individually (I can’t believe I’m defending Sheggra. I think it could use a minor buff like create more red gems based on burning enemies), but Sheggra gains more potential over time while The Great Maw is losing potential over time (Bless/Impervious). Enjoy it in Switch land, though its probably irrelevant there too at this point.

Carnex is a C rank and don’t expect me to think positive of it in its current state. 25% skull reduction is not good enough for 1st slot usage and 15 mana to explode a fixed 10 skulls is bad value, especially when there’s less than 10 skulls on the table. It has bells and whistles, but fails at its primary function.

King Mikhail/Urskula are both C ranks separately. Urskula may eventually be useful (not holding my breath). King Mikhail is overcosted, but decent. KM could use some kind of buff (either traits or mana cost). Urskula exists to eventually make something useful, one day.

(Scatter damage typically sucks unless it has some kind of giant boost ratio that gives it equivalent to AoE damage)

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47

C is for Carnex, that’s good enough for me.

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48

Jokes aside, I’m largely on board with what TheIdleOne said.

Keeper is A, not S.

I agree with this analysis, generally,

although I’d probably rank Maw above Sheggra in current, real terms since it can be used for scaling content if need be (e.g., people have used it to reach high-level Delves in the past, particularly pre-Irongut). It also has some okay Brown Mana/Curse synergy with Vash’Dagon, now, so everything’s comin’ up TGM! :stuck_out_tongue:

This is nit-picking within a Tier, though, and I still probably wouldn’t put him up to B (not widespread/versatile enough), although I’d maybe consider him C+, personally.

I like the idea for buffing Sheggra!!!

I think I have seen a couple of teams that used Carnex in a way I wouldn’t have thought to, but I still don’t really see him as B.

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49

I agree, except I don’t want to get dragged into placement within tiers (again) lol

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50

Thanks guys.

There is an argument that Keeper of Souls could even be B-tier, due to its dependence on other troops to generate skulls/doomskulls to be effective. Given the importance of skulls, I do think that KoS occupies an important and unique niche on many teams, that justifies it being in A-tier though. I haven’t played as much of the scaling content as many vets, so its utility in those modes is the piece of the puzzle where your clarification helps the most.

I may have come across a bit too enthusiastic on Carnex; yes it is not the best exploder or first troop, for reasons you mentioned. In the current Titan-class MC game, it’s all about the bells and whistles if you want to make it as a first slot troop. Sounds like Carnex’s extra perks aren’t good enough to elevate it from the rabble.

Re: the Urskayans, I guess my question was if KM was the troop that Urskula could make useful, by solving his biggest weakness. Once KM gets going, his mana generation is pretty strong, to where repeated casts aren’t terribly difficult, but that 17-mana cost is painful. If it doesn’t work though, it doesn’t work.

51

Here’s another batch of edge cases I’ve been thinking of recently:

  • Infernal King (A or B): Double converters by nature are almost too strong to relegate to B-tier, but IK would be the one to go down if any of them do. His damage is lousy and his traits are mediocre, especially on offense. Do any top-level teams still use him?

  • Webspinner (A or B): I think Webspinner is the strongest troop in my current B-tier. I hesitate to move it up to A-tier though, because all the good teams that its on have it complementing stronger troops (Arachnaean Weaver and The Wild Queen, most notably). You can build a top team around most A-tier Legendaries, and I’m not sure you can around Webspinner.

  • Kraken (B or C): The giant squid used to be a god, but now doesn’t see hardly any play at higher levels. It’s not hard to see why: its spell is slow, does poor damage, and has some mediocre gem creation with a chance to devour. Its third trait is unique though, and is especially useful for popping barriers. Does a sum of all its ok parts amount to something above C-tier?

  • Medea (B or C): Medea is a good troop in a vacuum, doing solid AoE damage and having useful synergies with daemons, mystics, and humans. Her problem is that I’m not aware of any good mystic teams. There are some good troops that would benefit from Medea’s abilities (Titania, Xochi, and Sekhma most notably), but you just don’t see her being used with them. Are we still waiting for a mystic team for Medea to jive with? Having a Mystic hero class would probably benefit her immensely.

52

Infernal King: C Tier, until it finds a proper loopable team. I don’t like its color typing and color conversions and there’s no fast start

Webspinner: B/C Tier, mediocre spell (not a fan of 9 gem creation) and 3rd trait has a bit too much counterplay. Can be strong otherwise.

Kraken: C Tier, there’s more devour protection nowadays. Its still functional though.

Medea: C Tier, 3rd trait is kind of weak, but barrier all relevant troops is nice, and enchant relevant troops (but not itself) can be nice as well. May eventually find a useful place. Has no boost ratio though.

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53

Wow, harsh on IK! I get what you’re saying, Ishbaala and Qilin are better choices for almost any situation you’d want to use Infernal King.

But like a handful of other troops (Krystenax, Magnus, Queen Grapplepot come to mind) without real meta teams, I think he’s still a bit too strong to drop all the way down to C.

54

In honor of the first non-faction Legendary to release in a bit, here is my current thinking on Legendary troop tiers. Many, many updates since last time, in large part thanks to the feedback you guys have provided. Thanks again, and keep up the comments!

(As for Gruz, I tend to be optimistic on new troops, but I just can’t see a niche for this guy. Single-target damage and status inflicting tends to be a ticket to bottom tier, and Gruz is no exception.)

(Also note the slightly-tweaked tier guidelines.)

(EDIT: latest list can be found here)

Tiers:
S: Invest at will, you can base a team around these troops through the endgame.
A: Overall not as strong as the S-tier, these are strong complementary pieces that can be used on many teams.
B: Niche troops; these are very good when plugged in alongside other strong options (they usually have 1-2 BFFs), but can’t stand on their own on endgame teams.
C: Usable, just not good enough to be B-tier. This is either because their abilities are not up to snuff, or there isn’t a meta team that can use what they bring to the table.
D: Do not invest in these, you can center better teams around your lower-rarity troops.

S-Tier:

Divinia
Divine Ishbaala
Forest Guardian
Glaycion
King Bloodhammer
Qilin
Queen Titania
Yao Guai

A-Tier:

Emperor Khorvash
Hyndla Frostcrown
Keeper of Souls
King Highforge
Nimue
Queen Mab
Sekhma
Tesla
Tinseltail
Wrath

B-Tier:

Borealis
Crimson Bat
Emperor Liang
Frostfeather
Glitterclaw
Holy St. Astra
Infernal King
Jarl Firemantle
King Avelorn
Krystenax
Lust
Magnus
Queen Grapplepot
Queen Ysabelle
Starflower
Sylvanimora
Taloca
Umberwolf
Webspinner
Willow
Winter Imp

C-Tier:

Artema
Bone Dragon
Carnex
Gar’Nok
Goblin King
Gorgotha
Imp of Love
Kerberos
King Mikhail
King Silenus
Kraken
Medea
Orion
Psion
Scylla
Sheggra
Sol’Zara
Spooky Imp
The Dragon Soul
The Great Maw
Urskula

D-Tier:

Abhorath
Autumnal Imp
Behemoth
Bunni’Nog
Celestasia
Chief Stronghorn
Dark Monolith
Dracos 1337
Garuda
Gloom Leaf
Gog and Gud
Gruz the Undefeated
Hydra
Kruarg the Dread
Leviathan
Moloch
Saguaro
Shadow Dragon
Spring Imp
Summer Imp
The Silent One
The Widow Queen
Venoxia
Viper

55

so, I’ve been meaning to ask… why is Winter Imp at B Rank?

56

(This is where I ask “which tier do you think he should be in, A or C?”)

The short answer is that Winter Imp doesn’t see much use on high-level teams, but he seems too good to be C-tier, so I put him in B. He’s super-fast, does true damage that he can self-boost significantly, with the freeze-all perk on kills being useful.

57

Winter Imp is used in some casual-pvp fast teams

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58

Could it be that your list is completely PvP oriented?
Because including other game modes I’d really have a lot to disagree.

59

No, it’s for all game modes. I tried to account for if a troop is good for resource generation or scaling content; it just seems that there aren’t as many Legendary troops that are essential for these other modes.

Let’s hear some disagreements!

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60

I think King Silenus should be higher. He’s powerful troop that keeps getting bigger with every cast, does solid splash damage, and sets the entire enemy team on fire. He also starts all Wildfolk at 50% mana. He’s potentially S-tier in my thinking.

He can do a lot of damage if the game goes on for a few turns.

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