What they are working on instead of QA:
What they are working on instead of QA:
Something big is coming…
Oops. All Ogres!
How do you cut back from zero?
Ngl I was expecting to get Rickrolled by the devs themselves.
Ironic considering just how many devs HAVE given up on the game and the players themselves.
And it’s probably just the video they are working on (which i question its [quote=“awryan, post:16, topic:80378, full:true”]
What they are working on instead of QA:
its going to be a disaster from the start. Missing all kinds familiar things we are accustomed to geting as normal nonfixable issues until the next update comes along and band-aids the problem until the next update is released. Sounds more like kicking the can than fixing it which is remarkably similar to real, non gamimg companies that bail in the end to be quite honest here.
To be fair, in a well-sectioned studio QA is a distinct skillset/role from programming (game direction, art design, etc) so starting a second project should not necessarily “take away” people from the QA role.
For comparison, a certain popular RPG franchise commonly works on 2-3 games simultaneously (albeit at different stages in their respective pipelines).
The problem is not (just) with the QA team, or lack thereof.
I am a software developer. If a coder passed code that is clearly not fit for purpose to the QA team, discussions would be had, processes would be sorted if needed, after repeat instances people could be shown the door or found a more suitable role.
Many issues that go live with 505/IP2 should not even have left the desk of the coder. The coder should check their own work: a little manual end-to-test testing, and in most cases some automated tests. This builds up a big suite of automated tests that helps prevent things getting accidentally broken in future.
In some teams there’s a show-and-tell. The coder sits down with the person who wrote the specification and shows them what they’ve done. Sometimes there’s a “oh, that’s not what I had in mind” conversation due to an ambiguity in the spec, or a “oh, maybe it would be better if…”. It should usually be “great, just what I had in mind”, if not, specifications or other communication need improvement.
Most teams would also have a code review before QA gets involved. Another coder or two, usually including the team lead, check the quality of the code. Can other coders understand what’s going on? Are best practices being followed? Are the automated tests covering as many areas as possible?
Now QA can have a look. Their job is to go over the new feature in minute detail. If they find any issues, they should be subtle. Dungeon doors not being properly random is the sort of thing a competent QA tester would be likely to find. However, that should have been picked up in a code review (“don’t write your own shuffle algorithm, there’s one at X”).
Theoretically, QA teams can be taken out of the development loop. But that needs all of the bits before to be working well. I haven’t worked in an environment like that, but I have mostly worked in Financial Services and mistakes with pay, pension or mortgages are far less forgivable that an occasional problem in a game. But code was expected to meet the specification before the QA team touched it.
The problems in Gems of War are rife and seem to be caused by failures in every area of development.
Design is uninspired, sometimes bewildering, leading to the impression that IP2/505 don’t understand their own game. For example, deep delves and epic trials.
Programmers are producing buggy code. In these forums, devs are often accused of being incompetent or lazy. Both of those are unusual. What is very common is for developers to be overstretched. Estimates for building new features are often aggressive/optimistic and plans often do not allow for coders being pulled away to fight fires. Overstretched staff cut corners (knowingly or unknowingly) and create more fires that need to be fought later, creating a vicious cycle.
Testers/QA are not catching buggy code. The bugs are so egregious that it’s clear that nobody has done any testing at all on some features.
Managers and owners are not addressing these issues that have been going on for a very long time.
My guess is that there is minimal investment in the game. There are too few people employed, or too few experienced people. Although I recall a denial, it still feels like development is being done by an offshore team (a proposition that is very attractive when looking at hourly rates, but needs much more detailed specification, more management and can lead to disputes about getting things fixed - “we built what you asked for, pay more if you want it changed”). World Event was an attempt to generate weekly content via RNG (also denied?).
It’s probably a horrible place to work, there can be very little job satisfaction. That leads to rapid turnover of staff so you get a team of people who don’t know the code or the product, creating more problems.
I have played Gems of War for several years. Far longer than I have played any other game, ever. But I stopped recommending it a long time ago, and I do not spend money, because as a software product, it is embarrassing. And I don’t expect it to change.
Friendly reminder programmers!= event managers. They do not work on event content aka troops or fights. Everything set by game managers in a simple form. No programmers were hurt here. Game designers at best.
I’m thoroughly enjoying the easy mode this week. It’s way too hot to bother with any of the annoying troops we usually get in bounty.
So while it doesn’t look good, and while I hope it happened because of the big update (though I’m wary of that to be honest) it’s still nothing I’ll complain about.
Maximising Profit → Minimising Effort
Even getting copy and paste messages wrong when releasing posts to the forum. The effort is nil.
It’s easy to conclude we are running on a very poorly setup autopilot.
I’m not convinced whatsoever they are overworked, short staffed or any other reason to explain their lack of care.
They only care about ways to take your cash and your gems. That’s just about all they’ve improved on in a long time.
Bounty doesn’t bother me as I don’t do it. The lack of progression in game also plays into AFK development. Get 10 books for Whitehelm and realise we need 14 weapons, 13 released and one 8 years ago barely anyone owns. They can AFK and operate on auto pilot with the way the game is setup.
I’ll always give devs credit where it’s due, but right now it’s below 0 for effort.
B1 GW bugs on two players returning 2 losses without even playing and bugs on the scoring elsewhere.
Thank you for the screencapture.
I’ve let the development team know about these two bounty issues.
Very well spoken post!
Though they may be unusual, it really is how it appears to a fair majority of those here, that post anywhere close to regularly. It’s a sad statement to be sure, but the communication from the team to the players is horrible. And having a definition of a bug that is so narrow that virtually every flaw is acceptable is even more sad. All that it portrays is a team that does not care in the least about what is produced.
So. We received a compensation of 20 gems for the “stubborness” of Ogres. That means it was a mistake/bug/whatever. Don’t bother if it was 20, 50, 100 gems. The problem is that it was an error affecting a weekend event that it was only aknowledge that there was something to investigate after the event. Again something that we need to deal and it won’t be addressed in time.
Those weekend events need to have someone on standby. Not only to address issues that crash down the game, but also those that affect the experience that Devs so proudly try to implement.
There is simply NO way this received proper testing prior to launch. And that’s unacceptable.
Not everyone cares about the same things. I didn’t even notice the team was all ogres until it was pointed out (and I’d played it extensively by that point). I only even pay attention to the opposite team if I’m doing something more challenging like PVP/GW/Epic Trials, doing something that I’m comparatively low level for, or if something very bad happens to wake me up out of auto-pilot.
People are unique and that keeps life interesting but it also makes it hard to make everyone happy. I personally couldn’t care any less that the opposing team was all ogres and that it didn’t change from battle to battle. That’s just not on my list of things to care about. So it’s entirely possible that it was tested, just by people who happen to have different gaming priorities.
There is a valid argument to be made that maybe they need to expand the kind of testing they do or hire an additional person on staff who particularly cares about/notices those specific sorts of things. But it’s not really fair to assume they did nothing at all just because a mistake was made. I’ve made mistakes in my jobs over the years. Everyone has. Humans are imperfect. That’s just how it is.
Every interaction I’ve had with them/seen on these forums has led me to believe that they really do care about this game and keeping the players happy. Could they do a better/more proactive job of communicating with us? Yeah, that’s valid. But I also think if we did a better job of constructively asking for the things we want that we’d fare better than by being insulting. Something, something, catching more flies with honey, etc.
There’s definitely something deficient in the test sanity management process, whether it be missing a checklist or the tools to do it. The devs should have some sort of debug only build that lets them hit a button or keyboard shortcut to insta-win a battle, and then go through 30-50 battles every event to make sure the triggers are happening properly.
True, but it’s the frequency of these mistakes that people get the most frustrated over. For example, a new trait that does literally nothing or immediately crashes the game, or a new troop that starts automatically banning everyone. At least two of these are things that should have been immediately rejected by QA and sent straight back to the coders to fix, yet “somehow” they made it through to end-user release prompting immediate complaints.
(insert famous adage about prevention vs. cure here)
Feels like they are paying people on fiverr to do the weekly updates.
Ogre ogre ogre ogre team team usky!
Sinny Cool (fiverr’s sinnycool) its close its fine no one will notice! You only paid me 5 bucks what u expect?